anyone else been ditched by friends for having Gender critical views?

[JetCityWoman]

Long time user new account

just that really? I've been quite vocal of the importance of biology and a lot of my female friends have basically told me to fuck off. were talking 5+ year friendships all gone because I refuse to accept men can be women.

anyone else navigating this weird state of being?

Furry

That’s really sad about your brother. Especially as there seems to be no room for lesbians and gay men in the brave new world of transactivism.

MaisyPops I think its worth pointing out that a lot of us are supportive or trans issues and everyone deserves dignity and respect but that must not come at the expense of women and girls.

Oswin I do think a lot of people believe all transgender people are the transexuals and transvestites we grew up around in the 80s and 90s. They were mostly very clear on their identity as feminine males and happy to be that. But the latest incarnation is so regressive its harming everyone even trans folk themselves. This whole notion of 'true trans' and dismissing detransitioners as not being trans is a tactic from the scientology play book.

SophoclesTheFox and me too! I too am on the left. Always have been. I've come out as anti-corbyn much to a lot of my friends shock. I've been honest that no political party represents me anymore. I was pro labour and pro green but Labour backing the GRAct and greens labelling women as non-men has pushed me from those parties. I find I am agreeing with Tory MPs on this gender critical stuff. I still can't fathom 2017 politics.

but my views on TRA and even pornography now (I used to be meh... whatever) This has led a lot of female friends to see me as a bigot. Thankfully I have some nurse, Dr and social worker friends who are very gender critical but feel they can't speak up because of their work.

Having said that a very good friend knows me well enough to know I don't form my ideas overnight and despite disagreeing to begin with he's now seeing the harm its doing.

JetCityWoman
Oh no! I didn't mean to suggest people on here weren't
I meant that because I talk openly about trans issues so maybe so far that has given me a bit of immunity when i say something gender critical.

MaisyPops absolutely. I didn't think you were against them! just pointing out for clarity thats all. I have seen Mumsnet posts shared by TRAs.

JetCityWoman
Phew! I thought I'd badly phrased something then.

Oh coming back to say, I guess I dropped THEM.

I removed myself from my (mostly online) community when it became 24/7 SJW brigading with no nuance or dissent permitted. I miss its old self sometimes but it became a creatively and socially new-puritan sort of place, fanatically committed to silencing women and punishing thoughtcrime under the banner of social justice. And I do mean fanatically. Doxx campaigns, relentless sifting of 'evidence' including bonkers, Stasi-like judgments about what characters in what tv shows people like or fail to like and what this reveals about them, what plotlines or situations they enjoy in fiction, whether they were seen associating online with banned persons, callouts and blocklists, all that malarkey.

This is ALL focused, hyper-focused, on ordinary individual women and girls, not political groups, and it reaches into every aspect of life, speech and thought, culture, preferences, PARTICULARLY sexual preferences, but everything; no dissent or difference is permitted (I suspect this how stuff like trigger warning rules-lawyering and the million ace identities happened - it's the only way you can morally opt out without being called out).

Somehow this commitment to totalitarian domination of the individual as a moral duty crept in over years. It really wasn't always like this. Trans is just one tenet of that ideology imo - not the driver of it. My community was largely female so I can't (and don't) lay any of that at the feet of transwomen. But dissenting from any aspect of transactivism is a high crime there so in that sense we lost each other over it.

Not at all. I only recently started being open with my views.

I had a conversation at work about it and everybody was baffled by the whole thing. They hadn't really heard about it and were more amused than anything by some of the more laughable stuff that had happened.

It actually made me feel like I was over reacting a bit and that this "fight" only exists on the internet. Then I remembered the possible changes in law and policy.

Ridiculous, how I loathe the 'right side of history' argument when it comes to gender critical thinking. The people who have mentioned this to me have invariably been more concerned with being seen to be right on than actually thinking things through.
Having happened upon trans ideology when my FTT nephew came out as trans, I had many conversations both socially and with colleagues with whom I am friendly (as it's relevant in my professional field, education) from a strongly affirmative perspective, wanting to educate myself and to be a good ally. These friends and colleagues have followed my journey from enthusiastic, unquestioning supporter to what some of them would describe as TERF, as it has popped up in conversation over the last few years. Female friends have mainly been in agreement, focusing on biology and the rights of women and girls. A couple of senior male colleagues called me out as transphobic last year for raising the GID, but have since been more sympathetic, asking for clarification and signposting to further reading.
Two male friends, with whom I have spoken separately, almost as a dare to myself, a psychotherapist and a director of young people's mental health services in their local trust, both instantly brought up the plight of MTT in male prisons as a "See!" and eyed me with pity and disbelief until we wound up the conversation, agreeing to disagree.
My nephew is vulnerable with a range of MH issues, and I have been very careful around them, as it would devastate them. For this reason I am keeping my social media free of gender critical content. I am also a (largely lurking) member of a lefty FB feminist group with strong intersectional, SJW, third wave leanings, mainly for educational purposes , and they would totally crucify me if I revealed myself as the TERF I have become, quite possibly causing the kinds of problems associated with TRA scare tactics.

Yep, I regularly name change because of this. I have been shunned by friends and family for having a problem with accepting my husband’s AGP, he’s cool, I’m a bigot. And of course I must be exaggerating.

I have told people who I though had my back about how angry and aggressive he has been, how he has been sexually abusive, and then minutes later they treat him like a hero.

I feel trapped and bitter, I can’t divorce as I have zero support system or money. I shouldn’t make a fuss, be more accommodating and just keep quiet. Honestly, MN is often the only place where I see other women saying what I know to be true, that for some (usual caveats) this is just an escalation of porn addled, misogynist and abusive behaviour, wrapped up in a fetish where they fancy themselves dressed and behaving as their fantasy.

Boo hiss to people.

RidiculousDiversion, my husband is exactly the same. A very right-on, left wing activist who is always protesting about something or other. He sees transgender people as 'the new gays' (his words), ie anything not fully accepting of the entire trans agenda is EXACTLY the same as thinking that homosexuality should still be illegal.

To be honest, it seems to me that he is worried about having the 'wrong' opinion, and it doesn't help that one of his protestor friends (who I have never met) is a transwoman.

He is therefore totally baffled as to how I (very left wing) am in agreement with his mother (very right wing) on this matter.

Gameoflife

It's a really odd time isn't it?

I have a large and growing group of women friends (and a few men) that all feel the same way and we know we have each other for support but I am very aware that other former friends are bad mouthing me without having spoken to me about the issue.

Not yet but I've been keeping my views off Facebook (I don't dare post anything gender critical there as I have a transwoman friend on there who has been through a lot of shit and I wouldn't want to upset them though I desperately want to talk to them about this issue) and only raising my head above the parapet on Twitter where I only have a couple of real life friends on. I did have a bit of an argument with one of those friends on Twitter when I retweeted a gender critical article, he's very pro-trans with lots of trans friends so thought it was very terfy but we ended the argument on ok terms I think - he's not the kind of person to ditch a friend for having different views, he's just ignoring my tweets on the matter instead which I guess is the best to hope for right now.

I've distanced myself from a friend because of her nasty anti - "terf" rhetoric. I half-heartedly attempted to challenge a couple of things on social media then chickened out (she's friends with Jess Bradley and a few other high profile tras) and have just unfriended instead. I rarely see her in real life these days so not sure if she's noticed yet though.

I’ve never discussed it with anyone. I’m not sure I’m skilled enough to put my point across.

Spoke to women friends i play sport with and the idea for them of males being able to compete in female sports is outrageous. My husband gets it but is a bit fed up with the subject. My teenage son is critical of the identity trenders, thinks they are ridiculous - but I’ve had arguments with him in regards to women’s rights and sexism. God knows what he’s reading online.

Lost one friend over it. He had a huge flounce beforehand, which really was a sight to behold.

I am on another forum and have 'friends' on there as its a quite close knit community. I have 'lost friends' on there, a fair few of them. Have also been accused of being 'anti-men' for discussing male violence and trans issues. Apparently I am the reverse of a MRA. I don;t know whether to take that as an insult or a compliment tbh

For some time the questions regarding trans men has been bobbing round in my head and I shared it with a very good friend. However, we came to a bit of an impasse over the subject of toilets and changing areas. We didn't fall out as such but I think she thought I was accusing ALL trans people as violent perverts and no one was safe around them, that I was expressing some sort of Far Right anti everything that isn't me opinion.
She gave me a hard stare and I left it at that but I did feel as though I had launched myself into an area where I am at risk of being perceived as a bigoted old cow with no compassion for the lives of those people who suffer discrimination.
I tried to explain, perhaps clumsily, that one persons freedom might well mean another persons loss. We went no further with it and I have told myself that this is a subject I would discuss in places like MN where it is safe to question, discuss, consider and be able to source reading material I wouldn't necessarily come across elsewhere.
My husband and I had a bit of rumination on the subject of transwomen in female sports and sort of agreed that there has to be a logical limit to where transwomen can be part of natal women's lives...
You see, I don't really know how to clearly express the opinions that are so burdened.

You see? I don't even know whether there are transmen, transwomen, FTM or otherwise. I get so utterly bogged down and it makes me look ignorant which is another reason why I avoid the topic.
My sister is gay and I think she agrees with me but I am too shy to broach the subject though I think it would be so enlightening for me.
How do you start that particular conversation?

Yep

I've been blocked by my own sibling who reckons they are trans (er no mate you're autistic and bi and get a bit of a thrill from wearing high heels, all of which is fine and you should crack the fuck on and have fun but doesn't make you a biological woman).

Also one friend and their group have completely cut me out over gender politics.

I notice certain friends posting things that make me strongly suspect they are also gender critical but don't dare press the issue or come out and ask! WTF has it come to that women are tiptoeing around shit like this?

DP is a lot less bothered than me by what people think (also helps that his job wouldn't be affected by accusations of TERFery which mine undoubtedly would). He cheerfully argues the toss with people about it and gets incredibly annoyed by the way words no longer seem to have any actual meaning.

I recently went all out on Facebook and was surprised with the number of friends who started out responding negatively but ended up looking further into it and then came back and actually thanked me for prompting the discussion. I have autism so I don’t generally know where the line is anyway and I’ve never ‘felt female’ either so I feel like my view is just as valid as anyone else’s and the only reason I would ever hold back is if I thought I would hurt someone I care about. Hence the thread I posted about how I could talk to a newly out trans acquaintance who’d said he wanted to ‘learn more’. I’m not in the business of bigotry but reality isn’t going to just go away.

Albadross "I am not in the business of bigotry but reality isn't going to just go away"
Hit the nail on the head for me there

LolaFlores that’s a rare occurrence for me!

The only person I've spoken openly with about this issue is my dsis, and she 100% agrees with me.

I managed to piss off my gay cousin by commenting on a post on FB, which he must have seen as he now avoids me like the plague.
Chopping the dangly bits off and putting on a dress and make up does not make a man woman just because he says so.

No but I am not on facebook and generally don't raise this issue with anyone.

I cannot talk to my teenage daughters about it though. They are both very feminist as am I and we generally have good discussions but on this topic they think I am utterly bigoted and wrong. So I don't talk about it with them. A further headache here in the US is that the bathroom issue has been led by the religious right and no one wants to be part of that club.