Okay. This is the woman’s comment:
“This comment thread is comedy gold. If you dont know why people find much trans ideology is difficult to take seriously then read through. It comes across as more victimy than thou, narcissistic with teenage flouncyness and constant call out and insult with very little reason or analysis.
Its no suprise theres a conflict between trans sexuals and nb people given that there is no logic that ties the two theories together. If gender identity overwrites biological sex then non binary people would be claimiing they were intersex. Why arent they?
There's some evidence in neuroscience that trans people may have some neurobiological cause which may make them feel dysphoric. There's no evidence for non binary people existing outside of a fashionable trend of art students dying their hair blue. Two spirit is an entirely different thing - largely a way of accepting gay men in a society with strict tradional gender roles.
People are mostly oppressed because of their gender expression not their identity. So if a male born person identifies as a woman or non binary but wears typically male clothing they wont expereince much oppression or harrassment. Whereas if a male identifies as a man but chooses to wear typically womens clothes then they will experience oppression and harrassment.
(She asked if any of these non-binary people could address any of her points. She was just told that she was devaluing and debasing them and they just got cross. So she responded with the following)
Debasing and devaluing non binary people and cruelty seem quite extreme words to describe what I've said. I notice you avoid the question why don't non binary people identify as intersex? If material reality of sex is over written by gender identity - or if identifying as a woman makes someone a woman and female then why not?
Secondly there is as I stated no scientific backing for non binaryness unlike with trans sexual people (most of the research has been carried out on those who have medically transitioned hence my using this term to distinguish from the more woolly term trans gender which can encompass anything from gender non conforming to cross dressing). What is non binaryness then if not an observable biological difference? It seems to then be a subjective opinion about ones lack of adherence to the gender stereotypes associated with ones birth sex. A statement that one has attributes and interests which are typically associated with both sexes. For example a male who likes both sport and gossip magazines.
Yet most people aren't a walking stereotype- most of us have a unique mixture of interests. So doesnt that make us all non binary? And if we are all non binary whether we admit it or not hen it can hardly be claimed it should be a special characteristic which needs protection and extra sympathy. So why is it only some people who identify as non binary? And why are they nearly all of one generation and political persuasion? Why do they have the same uniform?
It looks far more likely that it's a fashion trend like punk or goth, a youth movement without the music. In previous eras there were a lot of things to rebel against- civil rights, gay rights, women's rights and the strict conservatism of society. The boundaries around sex and drugs and rock and roll have already been breached. Yet still teenagers still want something to rebel against-. Something that sets them apart from their parents, something their parents won't understand or might be worried about
It seems to be all that is left to rebel against is reality itself. As most people don't want to change sex or take hormones with permanent effects non binary offers them an easy claim to be cool under the trans umbrella, one of the kids queering gender by having short blue hair and wearing androgynous clothing. Its much like the word queer now encompassing straight people with a BDSM kink or anyone whose ever had sex outside the missionary position. Its a way for non LGBT kids to still claim to be different from boring old vanilla straight people.
Nonbinaryness is held up as queering gender yet it actually props up gender roles. Its effectively saying that male and female sex stereotypes are accurate and right. That women should be pressured to wear nail varnish and men to be macho. By setting themselves apart from these sterotypes they are supporting the validity of the gender system. Because if it was ok to just be an effeminate man or a masculine woman they'd do that. By making up this whole new identity it's saying people who are not non binary whether trans or not must stay in their pink and blue boxes. Its only ok for special NB people today mess about in the middle. It therefore seems to me quite regressive and conservative.
And some of the trans people above are rightly pointing out that discrimination comes from gender non conforming to ones birth sex. So if a male born person presents as female they will feel societies ire. If a male born person presents as male but identifies as non binary then they face no discrimination. No one would ever know. Because people don't respond to people's identities that they can't see. It seems that many non binary people feel a bit left out in the oppression Olympics and the insistence on the they pronoun is a way of getting a peice of that pie. Omg someone forgot to use my preferred pronouns zir- the horror. Ditto with the claims that people are being triggered by having to decide between male and female toilets - omg NB erasure. Yet strangely intersex people have managed just fine for years without going into a meltdown every time they filled in a form or went to pee. And they surely do have a claim based on reality rather than their suddenly declared identity. .
So it looks mostly like teenage attention seeking, fashion and a desire for claiming victimhood and oppression that is otherwise not available to largely white heterosexual relatively wealthy young men and women. And no wonder because today victimhood gives one status. The more oppressions one can claim the more ones voice must be listened to in 'the reverse hierarchy. Its therefore to gain social status that in part people identify as NB.. Non binary is an easy way for someone to ramp up their oppression points and thus their kudos and prove their cool kid credentials. How else do you explain the rash of people coming out as NB among friendship groups? I looks more like social contagion than anything else.
I imagine when theresa may and other old uncool authority figures start coming out as NB everyone will be horrified and drop the whole thing. Then Scrabble around to find the next new thing to set themselves apart as oh so different and alternative.