Boys can enter girls' dormitories at state boarding school

[pisacake]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/transgender-boys-to-board-withgirls-at-gordons-school-qrllwztm3

"Gordon’s School in Woking, Surrey, is drawing up guidance for pupils saying they can ask to wear the uniform of the opposite sex, be addressed by a different name and/or pronouns, use gender-neutral ­lavatories, grow their hair long if they are boys, change their accommodation and wear make-up and jewellery."

Note that the uniform policy says:

www.gordons.surrey.sch.uk/uniform

"Make-up and nail varnish are both not allowed. This includes all make-up.
Girls are only allowed one earring in the lobe of each ear – no other piercings are allowed. With the exception of the above rule, jewellery is not allowed."

So it appears they are allowing make-up in order to cater for boys who want to dress up as girls. Line edited by MNHQ

"The school said it had acted because it had “become aware of students who would ‘come out’ after leaving the school”. It wanted pupils to feel safe to do so while still in their care."

Being safe obviously means allowing boys to sleep in the girls dormitories which are supposed to be safe spaces for girls who may be thousands of miles from their parents (most boarders are army children).

"The Boarding Schools’ Association has issued guidance to schools saying that if a boy intends to change gender he should be offered the chance to sleep in the girls’ dormitory and vice versa."

"Not all parents are happy about such changes. On Friday, parents at Highgate, a coeducational London private day school, received a letter from the head teacher, Adam Pettitt, apologising for the introduction of gender-neutral lavatories. Some younger pupils, he admitted, had felt “less comfortable and happy at school” as a result.

Highgate brought in the lavatories “to support gender-fluid pupils”, only for parents to ask if the change was “proportionate” given how few such students were at the school."

TempStamos
We are talking about children and adolescents who are being influenced and told they can 'change their sex' (they can't) and are being offered things like breast binding, puberty blocking drugs and in the long term surgery. All of these will have terrible effects on their lives and their long term sex lives- have a google if you can bear to see some of the dreadful outcomes.
All of this is being' encouraged ' at a time when they are adolescents and just incapable of making long term decisions - they don't have the maturity to understand the long term consequences.
And I'm afraid they are being encouraged by many adults who want to validate their own life decisions by seeing as many children as possible transition.

Why would you not want to share toilets/bedrooms with a trans girl (who yes still has a penis)? I think once the school allows children to identify, other students (unless the trans child decides to come out) will be unaware of what is in the other students underwear and will have no effect on them. Flip the situation around and force the trans girl into the male toilets and the trans boy into the female toilets and the harm could be enormous.

smiling
Yours is the logical approach - but that's not what the transgender activists want.

Tempstamos
Think about what you have just said: the risk to transgender girls (and girls) is from boys!
So by allowing self defining boys (transgender girls) into girls spaces, you take away the potential safety of the girls. That's why sex segregation works.

And I am not sure why you think the sexes want to share changing and toilet facilities? I can promise you that adolescent girls are NOT crying out to share their changing rooms / toilets with people with penises!

Are you a man, Temp? You are showing a staggering lack of appreciation of what it is like to be a teenage girl struggling with body image, periods, and breasts.

but what about the negative impact on the trans girl?

I imagine it would be very triggering to be amongst girls talking about and experiencing periods etc. when that is not going to be happening for them.

but the school is including trans females as female and trans males as males.

Male and female refer to sex not gender.

"May be missing the point here, but I've never understood why there can't be separate 'trans' facilities. So instead of being boy / girl it would be boy / girl / trans boy / trans girl."

They reject that. They want to get their penises out in front of all the girls.

See here:

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/03/illinois-high-school-transgender-girl-locker-room-rules

This is Lila Perry by the way.

i58.tinypic.com/11rwscm.gif

So please let us not assume that all these 'transgirls' are marginalised, passive, etc. Because it's already proven that SOME are flashers, exhibitionists, who get their kicks out of exposing themselves to girls.

Lila was fighting for the right to expose himself in front of ALL the girls. He was given the right to use a 'girls and transgender' facility but that wasn't sufficient, he wanted to go in the MAIN girls bathroom.

TempStamos Are you seriously suggesting that teenagers can’t tell the difference between a boy and a girl?

As for harm, I don’t know a teenage girl alive who wants to get undressed in front of a random boy. Does the harm caused to girls from discomfort & loss of privacy not matter?

Temp, So you want to lie to girls?

"Flip the situation around and force the trans girl into the male toilets and the trans boy into the female toilets and the harm could be enormous."

I think you are teasing us now.

Trans children are not able to fully transition until adulthood (eg have sex reassignment surgery etc) but why should children be forced to live a life as as the opposite gender to which they identify as, as a child (and know) I when in the female toilets, would assume that all the other ‘females’ have a vagina etc, but to be honest I could give a shit of the ‘female’ in the cubicle next to me has a penis because it’s none of my business.

TempStamos

You think a trans boy (biological female) is safer in the male changing room/toilets?

Incidentally, Lila Perry (as mentioned upthread) started off as a demure looking transgirl just asking to be included as a female. She was hurt and upset when they tried to give her a third space, so they included her in the female locker room. A year later, it looks like a very different picture.

This is not hysteria. This is respecting the boundaries of women and girls.

I realise you have other issues that you need to address involving all children. And you have my sympathy. But I will deal with those issues that concern me, whilst wishing you could have an easier time of those issues which concern you.

And I'm sorry, but I agree. I don't accept the word cis. I'm not defined in relation to not being trans.

I am neither non-trans nor a non-man.

I am a woman.

Flip the situation around and force the trans girl into the male toilets and the trans boy into the female toilets and the harm could be enormous.

How so?

Temp

Flip the situation around and force the trans girl into the male toilets and the trans boy into the female toilets and the harm could be enormous.

^

So women and girls have to be put in potentially vulnerable situations because of male violence? Why must women and girls be continually placed, in society, as the group who must make huge concessions?
The fall out of male violence must always fall on the shoulders of girls and women.

We are not making teenage girls undress in front of random boys. This school is letting trans children undress with the gender of the children they identify as. There are not just going to let a boy say well tonight I’m going to put some lipgloss and a bra on and sleep in the girls room. Do you really think a male child is going to come out to his parents as transgender see therapists, doctors etc, dress like a girl, change his name to a female name just so he can pee in a cubicle next to a girl and sleep in a (separate) bed to a girl.

Toilets are separated by genitals.

If you have a penis you will most likely use a urinal when going to a public toilet.

If you have a vagina then you will not, however you are likely to require a sanpro disposal facility.

It is obviously ridiculous and stupid to say that people should go to toilets based on what they 'identify' as.

If you have a penis then go to the penis toilet; if you have a vagina go to the vagina toilet. Covering your penis with a dress, a skirt, or a kilt, doesn't stop it being a penis.

If you want to go to gents wearing a dress there should be no issue with that, just as you can go to the ladies room wearing trousers.

I don't see how this is so complicated tbh.

Flip the situation around and force the trans girl into the male toilets and the trans boy into the female toilets and the harm could be enormous.

Because of male violence! You're suggesting that because the boys toilets will be dangerous for a trans-girl, the girls in the girls toilets should let boys in!

Seriously you must see the lack of logic in that.

temp is just trolling now.

What do women do in their cubicles? They change sanitary protection. I can't be the only woman who floods so badly that I end up with bloody fingers. I need to wash my hands in a sink. I would prefer not to do this with a man also present, regardless of how that man identifies.

Girls often to go the ladies to get away from the unwanted attentions of men.

So there are two reasons for you why women are not always comfortable to 'do their business' next to a penis.

@TempStamos

I am a transwoman and I don't use the women's toilets and that is because I am not female. I also know that a lot of women would be highly uncomfortable sharing the toilets with someone who is quite clearly male. My own mother was gang raped as a teenager and I know that it took her years to feel comfortable being alone with men and that sharing female spaces with men, regardless of how they identify or how much they were trying to pass as female, would have terrified her. I also have two younger sisters and I don't want them to feel like they have to ignore their boundaries or their instincts in order to not seem bigoted.

When I was at school, we came to a compromise. We decided that I wouldn't use the girls toilets or girls changing rooms but that it probably wouldn't be wise to have me change with the boys or use the boys toilets either. Instead I was allowed to use the staff toilet instead and I changed for PE on my own in a private cubicle. That was perfectly fine by me and it meant that everyone was respected and ensured everyone's privacy.

It's not a one or the other situation. If trans girls don't want to share with the boys then the solution to that is not just stick them with the girls instead. It's far better to find a solution that works for everyone and doesn't put anyone's privacy or safety in jeopardy.

And yes, the sexism of saying that 'because a man in a dress might be attacked by men in male spaces, then he should be given access to female spaces' is astonishing.

The solution to male violence is NOT to place some fraction of those men in female spaces. Lots of men are at risk of male violence for different reasons. Racial, religious, disability, so many things. But it has hitherto never been suggested that the solution is to send them to the ladies' room, because women are not as dangerous.

Especially given that the male self-identified victims are no more or less likely to be a predator than any other male.

TempStamos

Did you see the picture of Lila Perry. The exact kind of transgirl you are you speaking of. Imitating cunnilingus. You're okay with him being in the girls locker room?

Young girls do not want to share a bathroom with someone of the opposite sex. Because they think they're a girl, doesn't mean Jack shit to those other girls.

Why wouldn't you let any boy in, in that case? What's the point of sex segregation?

Your argument is that they are harmless. Where are you getting that? They are no less harmless than any other boy.

And it's not even about dodgy behaviour. It's about privacy. Boundaries. Discomfort.

I am liking the idea of the penis and vagina (vulva?) toilets. Very simple.

Flip the situation around and force the trans girl into the male toilets and the trans boy into the female toilets and the harm could be enormous

So you think trans women are in danger in the men's loos but you think men should he allowed into the ladies?

How do you define what men are safe and what men aren't when you allow them in the ladies loos?

You can't.

So they shouldn't be allowed in

Sorry, I don’t know how to reply to individuals comments? So I will just give my thoughts for all of the above to take as there reply.
Is the issue that you think boys (children) are going to pretend they want to be the opposite gender so they can more accessibly sexually assault children of this gender?
I have both a trans male and female friend, I consider them a male and female friend. I would feel greatly uncomfortable as a female if I saw my trans male friend enter the female toilets, similarly I would feel equally uncomfortable to allow my trans female friend to have to enter the male toilets. This issue isn’t boy and girl it’s boy(+trans boy) and girl (+trans girl)

Must break all safeguarding rules.