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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Some sort of campaign being organised against MN

229 replies

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 01/10/2017 12:26

There are rumblings on Twitter about MN transphobia. Mermaids mention something about a press release.

If anything comes of this I hope MNHQ will ignore.

OP posts:
QuentinSummers · 06/10/2017 12:39

S'ok. Found it....we obviously share the same politics

nauticant · 06/10/2017 12:48

Even if I were a raging Tory I'd like to think I'd draw the line at Nadine Dorries.

Ereshkigal · 06/10/2017 18:17

See also transwomen must be referred to as women when commiting crimes.

But must be referred to as transwomen when crimes are commited against them

Wow yes I'd never thought of it like that! See also small number of trans murders is "epidemic" in terms of the whole population, and small samples in studies aren't problematic, but the small number of violent transgender criminals are just a few bad apples.

NeverTrustASmilingCat · 07/10/2017 08:47

Also, women don't understand what it's like to be trans, but trans women somehow know what it's like to be a woman?

HemlockIsSpartacus · 07/10/2017 10:48

Never Oh yes. Material lived experience only works one way - conveniently the way that elevates male experience over that of women.

Terfing · 07/10/2017 12:48

Yes, the logical inconsistencies are mind-numbing!

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans · 08/10/2017 07:43

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mermaids-uk-charity-ban-as-boy-forced-to-live-as-girl-dvx3j99cn?shareToken

Mermaids story in The Sunday Times today:

A taxpayer-funded transgender charity has been banned by the High Court from any contact with a family after the mother, who was being advised by the group, forced her seven-year-old son to live as a girl.

The latest accounts for Mermaids UK, published last week, reveal it has been granted £35,000 by the Department for Education (DfE) and a total of £138,000 by the national lottery’s Awards for All fund and the BBC’s Children in Need appeal.

It can also be revealed that until last week Mermaids was advertising “same day” cross-sex hormone treatment for children. NHS guidelines do not allow the treatment, which causes irreversible bodily changes and can compromise fertility, for anyone under 16.

In a court case, reported last year, Mr Justice Hayden removed the seven-year-old child, known as “J”, from his mother after finding she had caused him “significant emotional harm” and “pressed [him] into a gender identification that had far more to do with his mother’s needs and little, if anything, to do with his own”.

Social services had declined to act against the woman, saying she had “appropriately taken on board support from . . . Mermaids”. However, the judge accused social workers of “summarily disregarding” many concerns expressed by police and healthcare professionals about J because they “did not wish to appear to be challenging an emerging orthodoxy in such a high-profile issue”.

J was home-schooled and was dressed in girls’ clothes, the judgment found. After being removed from his mother, sent to live with his father and sent to school, he had “assert[ed] his own masculine gender” and lived life as a boy.

At the time, Mermaids attacked the “horrific decision”, insisted J wanted to be a girl and said there was “no evidence at all to support this judge’s views”.

Yet in separate Facebook posts it has now emerged that the charity admitted it had been “ordered to have nothing to do with this child following their removal”.

Until last Friday the youth section of the Mermaids website featured a message from Dr Birgit Möller, a Hamburg-based doctor, offering fast-track trans-sex hormone treatment for children. “If the families are interested we would set up a long evaluation appointment at our clinic (3-4 hours) and afterwards an appointment with the endocrinologist [hormone specialist],” Möller wrote. “In case of an indication for hormone treatment he would prescribe it the same day.”

The message was removed after The Sunday Times asked Mermaids about it.

Stephanie Davies-Arai, founder of Transgender Trend, a website for parents questioning the diagnosis and treatment of children as transgender, said: “I am concerned that Mermaids is indoctrinating children, scaring parents into thinking that [gender] transition is the only way and intimidating professionals.”

The DfE said it did not fund Mermaids directly but as one of 13 “partner” groups in an anti-bullying alliance.

Mermaids claimed last night that it was not the subject of the court order and that it was the family that had been ordered to have no contact with it.

CosmicPineapple · 08/10/2017 07:54

How and why is this cult allowed to continue?
It is advocating child abuse and hides behind the wall of fear it has built.

It makes me sick to think of the childrens lives that are being ruined by Mermaids and their agenda Angry

CocoaIsGone · 08/10/2017 07:55

Was just reading this. There is also an article about the male/female sex question being removed/made voluntary in the 2021 census.

CocoaIsGone · 08/10/2017 07:58

It is disingenuous for Mermaids to say they are not subject to a court order, when the family have been ordered to have nothing to do with themHmm

Ktown · 08/10/2017 07:59

Oh dear.
They mean well but they are using non evidence based medicine to take and push a really iffy cause.
Children are children and sex and sexuality isn't something that is a big deal before puberty. Unless some dodgy stuff is going on at home. I'd be looking into what the hell the parents are doing and signs of abuse.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 08/10/2017 08:02

For balance, Mermaids ' response...

Mermaids was recently approached by a journalist looking to run an article on the charity, which was clear from the questions posed, was to be a ‘smear campaign’, looking for another sensational headline about transgender children.

The ‘news’ article which was published today (8/10/17) in the Sunday Times, references Mermaids financial accounts, a story from over a year ago, and one of numerous documents on the Mermaids website.

The ‘news’ story headline references a court case from over a year ago, where a young trans girl was tragically removed from her mother and was covered extensively in the national media at the time. Several months prior to the judgement, Mermaids was informed by the mother that the judge had ordered that her child was no longer allowed to access support from Mermaids. While we have followed this request, Mermaids has never received any legal notification or court order supporting this statement and no ‘ban’ has ever been issued.

The Facebook post referenced in the article, dates back to October 2016, and was posted by Mermaids immediately following the court judgement. This post has been in the public domain for over a year and has already been viewed by over 49,000 people. We continue to stand by the comments made in the post, and maintain that the outcome was tragic for all concerned. There has been no further progress on the case since that time, so we question the relevance in reporting on it as an ‘emerging’ piece of information.

Mermaids primary source of income is through grants and funding bids. While it is true that Mermaids receives funding from the Department of Education and the Children in Need, the charity receives no direct funding from the UK taxpayer.

The Department of Education funding allows us to deliver essential training in schools to address homophobia, biphobia and transphobia. This desperately needed training was highlighted in the 2017 Stonewall School Report, which uncovered shocking statistics about the treatment of transgender pupils in schools. With 51% of trans pupils being bullied, one in ten receiving violent threats, 84% of trans kids self-harming, and 45% attempting suicide, this training is crucial.

Similarly, with demand for Mermaids services increasing; as illustrated by the increase in phone calls and emails to Mermaids helplines from 400 in 2013/14 to nearly 4,000 in 2016/17, the Children in Need funding is essential to ensuring that Mermaids can answer the immediate need when vulnerable young people and desperate parents are reaching out for help.

Lastly, the statement that Mermaids was ‘advertising’ same-day cross sex hormones is misleading. On approaching Mermaids for a quote for this article, the journalist highlighted that there was an email within the ‘resources’ section of the Mermaids website from a German doctor called Birgit Moller. We confirmed that the email was actually out of date, as the doctor no longer practiced in the clinic mentioned, and removed the document accordingly.

Mermaids is not, and has never claimed to be, an advisory body. Whilst Mermaids provides information on treatment pathways, legislation, and research in both the UK and other countries, the charity does not promote or recommend that individuals pursue any specific medical treatments or procedures. If young people and families need professional medical advice, the only organisation that Mermaids refers them to is the NHS Gender Identity Service. Mermaids does not coerce anyone into following any particular treatment path, bus simply provides information and support.

We are dismayed to note that while we informed the journalist of all of the above facts, they have chosen to publish a misleading and defamatory article. While we appreciate that there is currently an interest by the media in transgender children, we find it wholly unacceptable to publish a ‘news’ story undermining the only charity supporting them for the benefit of column inches. We also question, again, the practice by mainstream media of publishing quotes from unqualified sources with an agenda to undermine the validity of transgender people, and transgender children in particular. Mermaids is happy to engage in conversation with individuals and organisations with a legitimate interest in supporting gender-questioning and transgender youth.

All of us engaged with gender diversity and supporting gender-questioning and transgender children are familiar with negative reactions based on ignorance, fear and prejudice. This makes it even more important that the UK media report on this subject in a truthful and non-sensationalised manner.

While Mermaids has been recognised by, and received numerous awards from respected institutions, the impact of such negative reporting has a direct impact on the families and young people we support and vulnerable youth that may be seeking support in the future.

Mermaids will continue to offer much needed support to families and young people, and to provide education and guidance to organisations and professionals, and maintain our objective to strive towards making the world a fully accepting and inclusive place for gender non-conforming and transgender children and young people.

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Oldie2017 · 08/10/2017 08:07

It would be a shame if the sex question went from the census. I have been looking at loads of census returns from 1841 to 1911 even last niught for my family tree. Sometimes the name is written wrongly so the gender helps you work out who is who. It also helps you understand the family groupings and who works and who does not. Never mind family tree stuff, these days if we want good data on how many women work, etc etc then we need to know their gender. I cannot see why having an "other" box is a problem for people (or if they have fully swapped gender under the law they then tick the box of what they transitioned to).

I do think the census issue is something MN should keep an eye on. If women suffered no discrimination then gender would not matter so much but we do, all the time and the more data we can get on women and their lives the better.

ErrolTheDragon · 08/10/2017 08:19

Losing the sex data would be bad. I'd even accept the TRA idiocy 'assigned at birth' - surely they could ask 'sex assigned at birth' plus 'current gender' (with choices M/F/other with text )

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 08/10/2017 08:21

Surely transpeople wouldn't want to to lose the sex data either - if they were solely recorded as M or F then how could they quantity oppression against trans people.

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CosmicPineapple · 08/10/2017 08:21

Sex is very simple. Why do they need to complicate it?

ErrolTheDragon · 08/10/2017 08:22

IME The Sunday Times is one of the most respected sources of investigative journalism in this country. Not 'smear campaigns'.

FirstShinyRobe · 08/10/2017 08:26

The one thing in all of the Mermaids propaganda that incenses me more than any other is the claim they are at the forefront of gender questioning. If that were true, then there would be some common ground to work with, wouldn't there?

SerendipityFelix · 08/10/2017 08:50

The mermaids article probably deserves its own thread to discuss, seeing as it isn’t to do with trans activists organising a campaign against Mumsnet. What happened with that though?!?

badbadhusky · 08/10/2017 09:03

Anyone else surprised at Children in Need funding Mermaids?

CosmicPineapple · 08/10/2017 09:05

I am surprised at any funding they get tbh. Shock

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans · 08/10/2017 09:06

The mermaids article probably deserves its own thread to discuss, seeing as it isn’t to do with trans activists organising a campaign against Mumsnet.

It probably does, at that. I'll start one.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 08/10/2017 09:07

I'm not. But I do think that those on Twitter should tweet news re this article to their funders with suitable comments and also to any other likely philanthropic body.

Bucketsandspoons · 08/10/2017 09:09

The statistics they quote about suicide and self harm - are those the multiply discredited ones?

mirialis · 08/10/2017 09:11

Got say, The Times/Sunday Times do not shy away from confronting this issue - articles today on the ONS now saying you will not have to fill out your sex on the census so as not to offend trans people (!!!) plus this story on Mermaids, and generally giving a voice to female columnists like Janice Turner on the subject.

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