Some sort of campaign being organised against MN

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

There are rumblings on Twitter about MN transphobia. Mermaids mention something about a press release.

If anything comes of this I hope MNHQ will ignore.

Love tht they call mumsnet 'a very dangerous place', it so bloody isn't.

He says he's the father of a trans child. A fan of Mermaids, it would seem.

If they have gone down the blockers/hormones route I can totally understand why he wouldn't want to consider that he is doing anything but the right thing for his child. Everyone wants to do the right thing for their children and would do anything to stop them hurting.

It must be incredibly scary to even contemplate a glimpse of a possibility that you may be causing long term damage to your child rather than saving their sanity.

It must be incredibly scary to even contemplate a glimpse of a possibility that you may be causing long term damage to your child rather than saving their sanity.

Yes. Hence the need to censor criticism. He sounds like he's really knocked back the Kool Aid in a big way though.

"If an argument is good it should be able to stand up in the face of any shouting down."

No - not really. You can be drowned out, misrepresented etc. Happens all the time.

You can't make people see it your way though. Look at any AIBU thread. People think what they think. And people who come in seem to be more concerned with calling everyone bigots and then running away. They don't have their ducks in a row to be able to take part in a debate. They are generally either dismissive or rude. The quality of debate here is very good.

In an echo chamber, it's never about the quality of debate

I follow lots of people from both "sides" on Twitter to avoid this. However, I don't think this board is echo chamber like, in the same way that a board discussing the roundness of the earth wouldn't be.

People can come and out whatever view point they like, but the problem is that one side is all about opinion and the other is based on facts. The side with the opinions can't back them up, so tends not to engage in the thread. It's not that dissenting opinions aren't allowed, it's that they can't be backed up by anything.

As far as I can see TRAs just make things up, then expect everyone else to agree that their opinions are true facts. It's kind of science Vs religion, and thus is extremely hard to resolve.

It was feminist pages that formed my views.

I was sick of being called a terf for saying vagina.

I follow lots of people from both "sides" on Twitter to avoid this.

I tried this but at some point in the days following Speakers Corner I made it onto the terf block list, so that was that. I still log out and read stuff sometimes, as I had to to see the status linked at the start of this thread, because I think it's important to read views I might not agree with and at least think about them. It's tedious to have to do that though and it means I (along with everyone else on that list) can't really engage with those twitter people so they remain in their own self-imposed echo chamber.

I'd love it if more TAs came here for a proper debate. I very much doubt they will though. They can't block us here, they'd have to engage with what we're saying and logic is really not on their side.

come and say hi!

Did a user called @elanetical actually post that photo about gay marriage though??

Yes, she did WashingMatilda. The post is here and the 10 reasons list is a hilarious piss-take of arguments people use against gay marriage.

Of course that's not obvious from @DadTrans's screen shot because the writing is so tiny you can only read the title

What bothers me most about that Twitter thread is DadTrans deciding that all Mumsnetters who filled out the survey must be 'cis-het' and therefore lying and ineligible. Because there can't possibly be any lesbian, bisexual or asexual women posting here?

Then there's the fact that no gender-critical woman can be 'cis,' by Stonewall's definition of the term. But I guess we don't have the right to identify our own genders or lack thereof. We're just 'cis.' Strange, that.

Again? It feels like not so long ago we were invaded by TRAs.

Brave that reminds me of someone (can't remember who) being called a "dangerous woman". Mainly because they were intelligent, educated and had opinions.

I feel very sorry for the parents who have been led up by the garden path by companies like Mermaids. If 'Dadtrans' does join us, I think he will get a lot of love, support, and advice. For his own benefit, I hope he is receptive.

I would love a proper debate. I would love to know what a woman is if she isn't an adult human female.

Ahh, thank you pencils I just skim read it and was !

It isn't new that men don't like to hear women debate.
I can pretty much guarantee the majority will be MTT rather than the other way around.
This will all pass in a few years.

We are all in an echo chamber of one sort or another.
I am the mother of a trans child. I will love and support my child as I always have done whether they continue transitioning or not. I am not transphobic. But I am gender critical and alarmed at the number of adolescent girls with co-morbid issues identifying as male. Mumsnet is one of the few forums where there is critical thought and the subject is openly debated.

'cis-het' and therefore lying and ineligible

This is it - I'm het, but by their very own definitions I'm not 'cis'. Unfortunately I don't live in the UK right now, so I didn't fill it in.

Perhaps they need to be a bit more clear on their definitions before they get upset.

I can define woman, sex, gender, female etc. in clear, independently observable ways. As soon as they can I'll be happy to let them know whether I'm 'cis' or 'trans' by those definitions, but so far, all I have is

'referring or relating to people whose sense of personal identity and gender does not correspond with their birth sex'

and gender being

'the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).'

I certainly don't identify with many of the social and cultural expectations of a woman in UK society, therefore, by any trans measure, I'm trans.

Since I'm a GC feminist, I actually just think I'm a woman with a personality.

Stopmakingsense

My vulnerable niece believes she's a young man and is now wearing a binder. I can't support about ideology that makes her change herself to fit some restrictive notion of gender.

I think the post twitter referred to was some sort of survey - did it then tell you the % you were 'male or female' some how? (Or was that another one?
It was the government LGBT survey. Which anyone lesbian, bisexual or under the trans umbrella (which includes agender) is totally entitled to fill in.
Looks like I need to name change again anyway. Which is a total bummer, I like to know who my friends are....

Oh this is so much bullshit. That TransDad is making it seem as if we have all completed a survey specifically about trans health (launched on 27th September). When the thread is about the LGBT survey and is from ages ago.
I am so angry

Should we set up some sort of refuge in case Mumsnet shut down the topic? Facebook? Reddit?

Poor old transdad. He thinks women discussing women's rights are 'transphobic'. I wonder if he has ever read a mn thread at all.