Munroe Bergdorf sacked by l'oreal

[Biddlyboo]

Has anyone seen this news story today? The irony that a mtt transgender goes off on one about race when the exact same thing can be said about men's privilege and society standing on the backs of women...
Sorry, just made me a bit
www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/41127404/loreal-sacks-first-transgender-model-munroe-bergdorf
Can't do clicky link!

"People didn't hang from trees while someone spat terf at them."

It could easily go that way. Have you seen how TAs talk about what they would like to do to TERFs? Burning alive and repeatedly pinching in the face until dead seem to be favourite methods of TERF extermination.

How these people think even their thought patterns are female is incomprehensible to me.

I wonder what the reaction would have been if it had been a black woman who made this statement about white people?

Would people on this board have been fully behind her, discussing structural racism, white privilege etc?

I bet many people would.

Jesus Christ. I'm gender critical but we're not going to win the argument like this.

What Munroe said about race needs examining on its own merits - jumping up and down and dragging the trans debate into this is not making anyone look good.

Munroe has a massive point about racism. It's uncomfortable to hear - but yes white people as a class ARE racist.

Our news media in the UK is a prime example - it reports white lives as more important than black lives every fucking day - from the stories they pick to run from the UK and around the world to the propaganda they peddle about immigrants.

Where is the biggest humanitarian disaster happening today? You could be forgiven for thinking it was the flooding in the U.S. as That's getting the coverage. You might have heard about the flooding in India - much more devastating, much greater loss of life - but fewer column inches. But actually It's Yemen - massive humanitarian disaster going on there, there's a huge cholera outbreak -

"According to the latest figures, more than 1,700 people have died since late April from the highly contagious bacterial infection, which can kill within hours if left untreated.

There are more than 320,000 suspected cases of cholera in the country and on average 5,000 new cases are recorded a day."

Why isn't this on our front pages?! It's come about largely because of a war we've supplied the weapons for. Our bombs rain down on BME across the world.

We wear clothes made by BME adults and children in awful conditions. Our capitalist society is built on exploitation - disproportionately of BME people.

Then, at home, black kids are treated differently in the classroom, people with obviously ethnic names get fewer interviews, black teenagers get stopped by the police ALL the time.

Our country is racist. Until you recognise that and can talk about it, you are part of the problem.

It's not OK to deflect the issue by going on aboit Monroe's male privilege or turning it into a trans debate.

It may be uncomfortable, but Monroe is right. If you disagree, engage with the argument FFS. Going on about Monroe's trans status in this context isn't going to win any hearts or minds. Not ones we want on our gender-critical side anyway.

People didn't hang from trees while someone spat terf at them

It could easily go that way. Have you seen how TAs talk about what they would like to do to TERFs? Burning alive and repeatedly pinching in the face until dead seem to be favourite methods of TERF extermination.

How these people think even their thought patterns are female is incomprehensible to me.

It could not easily go that way! There are a million things that could go wrong and most of them are to do with legislation. And letting any old man (trans or not) in our spaces.

None to do with "terfs" being mass murdered. That's beyond offensive. The term has only been around, what, less than ten years? It hasn't got the history, my 6 year old has never been called one in school. It's mostly right on lefty males using it behind a keyboard. And trans activists can tell us to all go die in a fire but none of those fuckers have actually killed anyone in a fire.

That was white men killing black people. Little girls in some cases. We can discuss transactivism without hyperbole.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_against_African-American_churches

"yes white people as a class ARE racist."

That's not what Munroe said, though.

Munroe said: "racial violence of white people... Yes ALL white people."

Which is nonsense. Racial violence? By ALL white people? You know as well as the rest of us that this is false.

I would say it's hyperbole if I didn't know that this is exactly the vocabulary used by the TA weirdos on Twitter and elsewhere. Just calling them by biologically correct pronouns is "literal violence", "ALL" women are responsible, etc.

Argh missed part of that
^It could not easily go that way! There are a million things that could go wrong and most of them are to do with legislation and letting any old man (trans or not) in our spaces but lynchings are not likely to be one of them.

I would say it's hyperbole if I didn't know that this is exactly the vocabulary used by the TA weirdos on Twitter and elsewhere

And also by people on here who say 'all men' - don't they?

Without feeling the need to say 'not all men'.

I would say it's hyperbole if I didn't know that this is exactly the vocabulary used by the TA weirdos on Twitter and elsewhere. Just calling them by biologically correct pronouns is "literal violence", "ALL" women are responsible, etc.

The issue with that is that in the trans case no women are actually responsible for violence against trans people. So it's a ridiculous statement. With white people, yes all of us are a part of a racist system that does violence to POc

Your claim is that the whole issue is bogus.

That's not what is being claimed though. What is being claimed is that transwomen are men, biologically. I personally refer them as she, if they so desire.

Calling out feminists who say this as being in the same boat as alt right is the same as saying that a dislike of porn and prostitution means you are a prude, sexless and right wing.

Monroe does indeed have a valid point to make about racism but racism doesn't stop at just white men exploiting BAME, there is much racism between Asian and Black.

The Times of India hasn't even commented much on the horrific floods in South Asia - though the disproportionate news of the flooding in Houston is very obvious.

Well said justanother.

Griswald - I obviously wasn't saying that TERFs have been mass-murdered and 6-year-olds are using the term as an insult.

I was saying that there are many TAs who announce their intention to kill TERFs in graphically violent and public ways, like in house fires.

Someone talked about black men being hung from trees while their murderers shouted "nigger" at them. Given the level of aggression and clear intention to kill TERF in house fires, for example, I have no problem imagining that some of those sick individuals can hang a woman they feel is a TERF.

That is what I meant.

It's not OK to deflect the issue by going on aboit Monroe's male privilege or turning it into a trans debate

I think that's going to be impossible on here.

"people on here who say 'all men'"

No they don't. People on here say men as a class which is not the same thing as ALL men.

Which you know, of course, since you have been around for many years, haven't you?

I get why you meant, but my point was. That hasn't happened and is unlikely to ever actually happen as they are all keyboard warriors. There are posters upthred saying terf is a slur 'like the n word' and the point I made about black people being lynched is there no comparison between those terms. Twat on the internet can call me a terf a thousand times and I won't flinch because there's no history.

People on here say men as a class which is not the same thing as ALL men

Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

I've seen all men are sexist.

But not all men are rapists. Or violent. Etc. I'd actually say the majority of posters would pull you up if you said it.

All people are sexist. Most women have internalised misogynistic ideas.

I was also going to note the irony.

Here we have a post about racism full of responses centering white women . As usual!

Let's take trans out of the picture.

Can black men not highlight white privilege and aggression?

As a black woman, I am aware of male privilege. Believe me, and the majority of black women, when I say racism impacts us significantly more than sexism.

I am a feminist and will always stand against oppression when I see it, but if I 'had' to play oppression Olympic's, if rather be a white woman than a black man, or a black trans woman. Of course I would rather be a white man, but I can honestly say that having been through the black experience, Iife would be 95% easier white. Hell, the extra 5% as a white man would just be greedy!

I don't understand why her sex or trans status is up for discussion when her point was about race! She is black and her point was about race.

Why have you all decided that the topic can be avoided because of her sex?

One poster even notes her skin lightening and says that should be up for discussion first. How do you get decide?

And ffs, why are we talking about racism in India?

It was very clear that she was speaking on WHITE privilege.

Would anyone care to discuss her actual point? Should she be sacked for what she said more than laud d for using her platform to highlight a very important issue which is still largely unaddressed and misunderstood. Thus helping to keep the system of racism alive and thriving.

Interesting point.

Can someone explain this to me: "your existence, privilege and success as a race is built on the backs, blood and death of people of colour."

I don't get it at all.

Is it talking about America's or UK's economic success being built on slave labour?

I'm white Caucasian but have no ancestors from any country that exploited black African slaves. Struggling to understand how any of my life at present is built on the back of black slaves' suffering in past centuries.

Where are your family from cote? I'd be surprised if none of your family are from a country that supported slavery or don't live in a country that profited from salver.

It goes beyond slave labour cotedazur, though that is still part of it because western society hasn't shaken off the overhang of the inequality and oppression. Western wealth has been and continues to be acquired through exploitation and oppression of the developing nations.

Or you don't live in a country that profited from slavery.

I'm going to just throw my phone across the room one day

cotedazur

In terms of your point about your ancestors, I don't know where you're from but this touches on the difference between white people as a class and a white person as an individual. So it may well be the case that as an individual, you have done nothing to contribute to oppression and inequality. But the comment you quoted was about white people as a class, which is different.

Monroe Bergdorf now says (on C4 news) she was talking about white people as a class - that's not how I took her initial comments which is why I didn't like them.

Griswald - Trust me, I'm not. White people are not only from US, UK, and Europe.

Even for Americans who have clearly benefitted from historical slave labour, I don't see how it's possible to say that they are responsible for what their ancestors did all those years ago.