How 'afraid' are we of men?

[ChipsForSupper]

Most of us know, either sadly through experience or through knowledge acquired by observing the world around us, that men can be threatening towards women and most of us are also brought up trained to take precautions such as not going out alone at certain times or to certain places. I was just wondering how individual women feel about this and to what degree it affects each one of us.

Personally, on the surface of it, this rarely worries me and I am happy to go on remote country walks by myself, often walk home late at night etc. This is probably because I am older now, I live in a fairly untroubled neck of the woods and I am a "what are the odds?" type person among other reasons.

However, recently, I broke down very late at night in a quiet country layby. I told the rescue people on the phone that, although I was a woman on my own, I was not a priority because I knew the area well and felt quite safe. While waiting for the breakdown truck to arrive, I even had to get out and and venture into the bushes to have a wee and felt perfectly OK about it. Then, at one point, a saw a man walking up the road in the direction of my car. I felt instantly afraid - even though I knew he probably couldn't see me as the lights were out and was more than likely an innocent soul on his way home from a night out somewhere. Nevertheless, my heart was racing and I held my breath until after he'd gone. This reaction took me by surprise and made me realise that I am affected by this general 'fear' of men.

I've often heard friends say that they are afraid of the dark, or afraid of lonely places or afraid of breaking down etc. All of this happened to me and I was fine until a man came along. What we really mean is, we are afraid of men.

Anyway, I wondered how predominant everyone else feels this fear is in their day to day lives?

It's an interesting and pertinent question OP. I noticed fairly recently that I have gradually changed my behaviour as I've gotten older. Some examples:

I no longer drink on nights out so I can drive whereas before I'd walk alone at night no problem (live in a city and there's been a few taxi rapes so not even comfortable using them, also a girl was raped at a bus stop I frequented near my home). Also don't like the feeling of not being completely in control and alert.

Avoid public transport where possible

Single and no intention of dating, no interest in men romantically anymore.

I no longer wear heels or restrictive clothing so I've got a better chance of escape should the worst happen.

I keep fit and do boxing/combat style classes as I feel more confident knowing I can attempt to defend myself.

Im sure it started when I became a parent in my mid 30's, my safety became more important to me I guess and I when I split from my child's father I decided staying single was safer for me and my dc.

Writing it all down it seems a bit extreme I suppose but for me it's just self preservation. I don't feel restricted as such but I am much more of a homebody these days (although that's probably just getting older) but nonetheless it's where I feel safest.

I do think being the victim of a crime is purely down to wrong place, wrong time but at the same time I clearly feel the need to take steps to reduces my chances further. I know the focus on women changing their behaviour is wrong but male violence is as prevalent as ever and doesn't appear to be going anywhere.

Violent men don't advertise themselves

Some very much do so, though.
Both DH and I avoid them.
Sure there are violent men who don't appear violent, but at least we avoid the ones who are obviously so

Exactly. I don't socialise with, or for that matter even know, anyone involved in crime, extreme politics, gangs or drugs.

I've never seen any of my male friends, relatives , partners or aquaintances get into a fight and I've never had a partner who displayed any violent behaviour.

The only know people I know who have
any criminal convictions are for driving offences.

I appreciate none of this means I won't get attacked by a random stranger but violent men or women are not part of my life.

The OP seemed to more about random encounters with strangers, not partners.
If I'm in town and there's a rough looking guy or two, shouting and being aggressive on one side of the street and an apparently mild mannered looking man on the other side, I'll avoid the thugs and walk next to him.
Of course, he could go home and kill his wife, since any man could be violent.
But on balance of risks I'll avoid the men broadcasting their violent tendencies.

I dunno if I'm afraid exactly, but I am very aware of what the worst outcome in a situation could be and I am(or at least try) to be alert to any warning signs

This. But then I extend this to most situations, TBH, for example if I am flying I'm one of those people who counts the rows of seats so I know where the nearest exit is, and when I am at the cinema I would know where the emergency exit is too.

Men give off more "warning signs" than women, though, so the situations where I have felt most vulnerable (large football crowds, walking home alone at night) have been ones where I specifically the thing causing my concerns is the presence of a man or many men.

I'm amazed by the amount of answers to this thread in just one day - it would seem that many of us have at least something to say about feeling 'afraid' of men. I relate to what lots of people have said about not necessarily feeling afraid but maybe feeling cautious, or feeling wary or feeling a sense of trepidation. Yes, I didn't mean I am a quivering wreck constantly in fear of men - it is more that whole sense of wariness which I don't feel on a day to day basis and which therefore struck me so forcibly in the situation I described.

It's interesting that some posters have said they would have felt wary of anyone, male or female, coming along the road in that situation. I can honestly say that I would not have felt at all worried if it had been a woman. In fact, ironically, if it had been a woman, I probably would have got out and asked if she was OK and why she was on her own in the small hours in the dark in a remote country lane and if I could help in any way!!

I think Datun is summed up my feelings by saying this:

Because, if he had been dodgy, you would have had no chance.
And that's the difference.

It's this unknown element which means that even posters who claim they are not afraid, then say things like they would have had their doors locked. or they are feisty and fit so could retaliate, or are joining neighbourhood watch schemes to combat forms of anti-social behaviour, are all still actually factoring in this unknown element (ie male violence) into daily lives.

The OP seemed to more about random encounters with strangers, not partners

Yes , I know but I don't adopt wariness as the default setting.

Not so much any more as I work in a men's prison as part of my NHS job. i don't go out of my way to walk through the woods in the dark on my own though. I take precautions any sensible person would take man or woman not to put myself in unecessary danger.

Yes I am afraid of men. I grew up with a father who hit me and live with a partner who isn't physically violent but shouts and threatens violence and is physically intimidating.

I'm wary if I'm out walking the dog and a man approaches. I'm wary of drunken men in pubs.

"Men are afraid of women laughing at them. Women are afraid of men killing them."

No, but I think that's more down to subconscious decisions/ knowledge, than because it's logical.

The individual males I have been wary of are the opposite of lass though. Although I'd never call them friends, I do know people that are hardly upstanding members of the community. But they don't scare me, because either they are harmless or at worst a known quantity that I can verbally deal with. The males who have either harmed me, or who my instincts told me to stay away from, look and act like normal, decent men on the surface.

The dodgy looking man making lewd comments as I walk past I can defend myself from. The criminal following me in a deserted place late at night the dog will deal with. Neither cause me fear. The well spoken and smartly dressed business man who tries to dominate my body space in a supposedly safe place, and who makes my skin crawl, yes that scares me.

I am not afraid of men because I have never experienced violence, intimidation or abuse from a man and don't have any female friends or acquaintances who have ever mentioned that they have either. That doesn't mean I don't understand why many women are afraid of men though.

Slight tangent to this really interesting thread, if I may?

The recent thread on AIBU about a female motorist who got lost and had a peculiar encounter with two men who kept using their car to block her in got me thinking about being out and about with my DC.

The OP of that thread, and most of the other posters, said that she felt more vulnerable because she had her DC with her, whereas I feel safer (in terms of the threat of male violence) when I am with them. For example, a friend was once told by a security guard who was giving her directions that she would be OK walking through a dodgy area, as she "wouldn't be raped because she was pushing a pram" (not in the UK!). I have tended to work on the basis that men who might pose a threat to me would not be inclined to also be a threat to my small DC.

I know that there are many exceptions to this (Rachel Nicholls on Wimbledon Common has always stuck in my mind, because she had her small DS with her when she was attacked), but the majority of stranger attacks on women seem to be against lone women, not women with DC. I was surprised by how many posters said that they felt more vulnerable when they were with their DC

@OlennasWimple I wonder if that vulnerability comes from an instinct to protect the children(unable to run aa fast or as far,not wanting them to see or hear something bad, certain actions would be either impossible or put the kids at risk as well etc)first rather than being a more vulnerable/attractive target because of the children.
I know I'm definitely less fiesty if DD is with me.
Saturday for example, we were in a field car park, car was stopped to let other cars go past. We were right next to it. Still stopped, so I started walking in front of it, and the dickhead started his car,lightly bumped me and stopped. If I was alone I would've had the mother of all tantrums,but I didn't want to scare DD or escalate an already weird situation in front of her. So I just shouted "watch where you're going" ,muttered stupid people under my breath,and my focus was on DD and reassure her that I'm ok and everything is fine.

Dunno if this makes any sense.

Of course plenty of girls on their own are attacked and harassed by boys and men in public so it's certainly not the case that such men don't want to harm children - more maybe less likely to attack in the presence of young children simply due to it being more likely for them to create more of a scene which may be noticed, perhaps. They also probably enjoy the power they can hold specifically over a girl or woman on her own and the fear they can induce.

I also think the comment that security guard made to your friend is pretty awful Olennas.

If I were walking alone at night and there was a man approaching me or walking behind me then yes, the first thing I'd feel is fear.
I would speed up and possibly hold my keys in my hand to use as a potential weapon (as advised by my father years ago). He also advised me if I was attacked to go for the eyes and groin and if I was grabbed from behind to kick their shins as hard as possible and to scream really loud.
I don't walk alone at night anymore and am usually out and about with my 1yo during the day. I don't feel worried in public places during the day at all as the likelihood of being attacked in front of other people is slim and I also feel as if having a baby with me makes me invisible to a certain kind of man.
I think the MIL upthread that taught her boys to avoid scaring women was onto something. I think I will teach my boy similar when he's older and I will pass the tips onto my dh also. I've been slowly educating him on male privilege and pointing out that everyday women are harassed, assaulted and abused by men. His eyes have been opened now but he probably doesn't think that a woman would be scared of him as he knows he has no bad intentions.

My mum and I were hypothesising about whether humans have an inbuilt fear of strange men. Most babies and small children I know are wary of strange men but not strange women.

@NoLoveofMine in some cultures there is a fucked up "respect" for mothers. I say fucked up because it stops at motherhood,not an actual respect for the woman as a person. Not just that,but by being a mother also implies that she belongs to another man,whom is also deemed worthy of respect,even in absence.

Rebel - that's certainly the case in my friend's situation - the security guard wasn't saying it to upset or scare my friend, it was true...

I think I feel more vulnerable with ds not because I think it's more likely that we'll be attacked or whatever, but because I know that I would struggle to escape or fight while carrying a child. It's the severity of the potential consequences that make me feel vulnerable, not the severity of the risk itself IYSWIM.

that's certainly the case in my friend's situation - the security guard wasn't saying it to upset or scare my friend, it was true...

Not sure about that. Perhaps there's a statistically significant effect, but all it takes for one man to decide that he doesn't care if the woman is already owned by another man.

I'd like to know the statistics in detail, though ... of mothers and women without children walking through dark alleys (overall numbers don't mean anything if mothers never walk home with a baby at night) and how many are raped by strange males. Perhaps it'd be worth it to carry a baby doll around, then.

Judging by the number of pregnant women on here, who have been targeted, I'd say that a perceived weakness is no protection.

Rebel I see what you mean. Perhaps the respect is down to a woman performing what's regarded as her primary purpose, that is being a mother. It certainly doesn't mean she's respected individually as you say. I'm not entirely convinced this is relevant to the topic of this thread, though, but could well be wrong of course. The notion of the woman already "belonging" to another man is definitely one which exists and a view shared here - I've heard and read of many times when a boy/man has "hit on" or groped a girl or woman at a party/club etc but if finding out she has a boyfriend apologised to him - or if she pretends to have a boyfriend has more respect for that mythical male than her as a person with the autonomy to say "no".

In threads about street harassment here I've also read comments from women who've been harassed whilst pregnant or whilst with their young children. Added to that of course that girls are targeted from a young age as I said, including in school uniform when harassment starts for many.

The comparison with cars is a bit daft,but only because people are afraid of cars. Otherwise why do people look left and right before crossing,wait for the green man,use crossings etc.? Not just that but if I see someone driving erratically, I don't trust them to obey the traffic rules suddenly, so I'd rather wait for them to pass before crossing.