How 'afraid' are we of men?

[ChipsForSupper]

Most of us know, either sadly through experience or through knowledge acquired by observing the world around us, that men can be threatening towards women and most of us are also brought up trained to take precautions such as not going out alone at certain times or to certain places. I was just wondering how individual women feel about this and to what degree it affects each one of us.

Personally, on the surface of it, this rarely worries me and I am happy to go on remote country walks by myself, often walk home late at night etc. This is probably because I am older now, I live in a fairly untroubled neck of the woods and I am a "what are the odds?" type person among other reasons.

However, recently, I broke down very late at night in a quiet country layby. I told the rescue people on the phone that, although I was a woman on my own, I was not a priority because I knew the area well and felt quite safe. While waiting for the breakdown truck to arrive, I even had to get out and and venture into the bushes to have a wee and felt perfectly OK about it. Then, at one point, a saw a man walking up the road in the direction of my car. I felt instantly afraid - even though I knew he probably couldn't see me as the lights were out and was more than likely an innocent soul on his way home from a night out somewhere. Nevertheless, my heart was racing and I held my breath until after he'd gone. This reaction took me by surprise and made me realise that I am affected by this general 'fear' of men.

I've often heard friends say that they are afraid of the dark, or afraid of lonely places or afraid of breaking down etc. All of this happened to me and I was fine until a man came along. What we really mean is, we are afraid of men.

Anyway, I wondered how predominant everyone else feels this fear is in their day to day lives?

Women are expected and trained to be afraid. It's never actually specified what we should be afraid of though. So when these posters tell women not to drink, not to leave friends behind etc, it never says 'because men will attack you/them.' Women must be afraid, but it must never be said what they should be afraid of because that might - god forbid! - upset men a little bit.

This!

datun, I think that's why even 'mild' victim blaming (such as 'why were you walking alone late at night') is a real problem. It's like an additional form of harassment - it keeps you constantly on your guard. I had to make a concerted effort to continue to walk when I wanted and did so with a significant amount of trepidation at first. And what happened to me was incredibly mild indeed.

I think I am desensitised to that type of incident as it is common for teens of both genders to shout a lot here. It's just teenage bravado and the soon shut up when you go and put them in their place.

I'm quite used to teenagers too, berry, given that I'm a secondary school teacher. But in that particular scenario (isolated, dark, didn't have my phone) i didn't feel safe challenging the behaviour. I wasn't wrong to be afraid. I didn't know these teenagers, and I was conscious that if they did decide to attack me I would have no chance.

Threatening rape is something they clearly know will intimidate as they know they could carry it out if they wish. Another way of exerting power over women and girls, as these men did here: www.getwestlondon.co.uk/news/west-london-news/woman-told-i-hope-you-13041666

It's certainly not normal teenage behaviour and if it's perceived as "teenage bravado" for a group of boys to threaten rape then that says a lot about how normalised misogyny is.

dinahmorris

Completely agree. All those damn posters in police stations telling women what will happen to them. And don't drink! Be alone! Be not alone! Seek help! Don't seek help!

It's fucking ridiculous.

I'm not afraid, as a general rule. But I am aware of being vulnerable at times. Especially when I have DS with me, as he would make it very hard for me to run away or fight (assuming I even could). I don't know how much of that comes from the awareness of being physically hampered by a pram or sling, as opposed to being a man / woman thing.

That said, I had a silly argument with a man on the road near to where I live (not really relevant as to why, but I didn't start it) when DS was a baby, and spent the next few weeks feeling on edge when I was walking along local roads, in case he came by and recognised me and decided to carry on with it. I doubt he would have realised how he made me feel (thank you, school bullies, for a great education in hiding fear) but I was genuinely apprehensive for a while. I suppose that the subconscious awareness I have of being less big and strong than most men meant that I was more affected by the whole thing. I haven't seen him again though, and it's worn off now, thankfully.

I also want to make the point that it wasn't just the rape threat that made it scary. The whole situation contributed to me being afraid. Had a 15yo in school threatened me I wouldn't be nearly so scared as I would have the full support of my school in dealing with the incident. There was something about the powerlessness of it all. Knowing I couldn't call for help and being convinced that nobody would believe me / take it seriously if I did. Victim blaming attitudes like 'you a silly to be afraid of teenagers' really are damaging in themselves.

I didnt mean it to come across like that. It's just I run the security and neighbourhood watch in the supposed 'worst' park round here. I often have to go down and kick pff on behalf of other mums and teens. I try and reassure them it's all bravado and not to let it ruin the park for them.

I set this up as we lost our PCSO and so I just take matters in to my own hands. People report incidents anonymously on the fb group if they are worried to tackle it themselves.

If there's nothing to be afraid of, why are those people worried Berry?

If people are dismissing rape threats as teenage bravado, then we really have a problem!

I'm wary of men. I would avoid situations where I was alone with any man beyond the few I'm close to and I don't seek out their company or befriend them. I have experienced serious sexual assault and constant 'lesser' harrassment from men. NAMALT but enough are that I'm not willing to take the risk. I don't spend my life in fear but I'm just not interested in having men as a major part of my life beyond what is necessary and the few who I love.

The reason that the army/navy/air force and police exist is due to the fear of male violence, for the most part. The idea that some people walk around without an ounce of fear is nonsense - you'd have to be a bit of an idiot to feel safe in a country where 85,000 women are raped every year and 2 are killed every week.

Most people arent worried sparrow. It depends what they are used to I suppose. My mum worries about it, but she just reads stuff in the daily mail and cuts articles out and brings them to mine.

I dunno if I'm afraid exactly, but I am very aware of what the worst outcome in a situation could be and I am(or at least try) to be alert to any warning signs.
I'm a bit odd as due to my experiences I'm actually less wary of public places/strangers than situations/men that would be considered safe.
Even with DD, while we talked about stranger danger, I emphasised that the same rules apply even if it's her friends,my friends,her friend's parents etc.

I wonder how many men are aware of the fact that they are potentially intimidating? DH is 6'5 (and half as wide ) and the very physical size of him could intimidate even the bravest of men. He has a kind face and gentle nature, and is softly spoken, but of course none of these things are noticeable at 2am when he's walking down a quiet road home from the pub.

If he sees a lone woman waking in front of him, he'll either cross the road if possible, or slow his walking speed so that he's never walking very close to her. If he knows I'm awake, he'll call me to talk. Apparently this is something his mum told all her sons to do, so as not to frighten women, but I'm torn as to how helpful it is.

Isn't it perpetuating the idea that men are something to be feared, and that men who don't have any nasty intentions should go to great lengths to ensure that the women around them know that? Curious to know others thoughts on this.

I appreciate that, berry. My DM asking why I was out late was also from a place of concern. But it made things worse.

In my situation I wasn't being silly or ridiculous for being afraid and I am (frankly) sick of people using the in real life when I tell them so you hit a particularly angry nerve.

Reassuring them can be good, and I don't know your particular situation, but is can come across as dismissing their fears (as your comment did to me) which isn't helpful. Saying "don't let them ruin the park" also can come across as victim blaming. It is just another way of making the victim responsible for their (often reasonable) fear.

In many cases it (random shouting - not a rape threat) is simply teenage bravado. But it is often difficult to assess whether that is the case or whether things might turn nasty, so I would never attempt to talk someone out of listening to the instinct which tells them this situation could turn dangerous. It is the advice we give to teens in school - if you feel scared or uncomfortable listen to the voice and walk away / seek help.

In fact, I think the NAMALT we constantly hear is risky for that too. Of course it is true - I trust the men in my life totally. However, it advises women to treat men nicely and don't assume they are dangerous, to the extent that some ignore the internal warning bells as they don't want to "make a fuss over nothing".

I don't mean ruin the park. I mean ruin their experience of the park. Most people kick off here. My road is really safe but everyone can get a little feisty. I include myself in that in the past, but not so much nowadays unless looking out for the park.

Why do you have to run security if so few people are worried Berry

Security was caused people were breaking the equipment not cause people were getting hurt. No one gets hurt here

'Isn't it perpetuating the idea that men are something to be feared, and that men who don't have any nasty intentions should go to great lengths to ensure that the women around them know that? Curious to know others thoughts on this.'

Given that man millions of women are attacked every year and a smaller number murdered, I don't think it's too much to ask men to make women feel a bit safer by altering their behaviour a little bit. Women are often advised not to walk certain places, not to go places alone, not to drink too much etc, why should women change their behaviour and not men?

No one gets hurt? Wow, where do you live?

I knew what you meant berry and my comment still stands. It is the let them part of "don't let them ruin your experience" that I have a problem with. It implies that the victim has a degree of control over the situation and generally they do not. If someone is afraid and it ruins their experience of the park that isn't their fault. It isn't because they aren't strong enough or confident enough or whatever. It sounds like it is because a group of teenagers are behaving anti socially.

It's interesting you raise this question. I was out running in a remote area where I normally don't see a soul a few weeks ago and a lone man asked for directions. I came over all panicky inside when he hailed me down and was rattled for the rest of the run. I was cross with myself for feeling the fear and was wondering if it was just me, so it's reassuring that it isn't!