White women- it's all your fault

[WeldMeDaphne]

I will preface this by saying that I am indeed a white woman. And I realise this affords me a lot of privilege.
Among a lot of the rhetoric around the Events unfolding in the US (mostly Charlottesville), I've seen a number of open letters to white women about our complicity in the neo-nazi and white supremacist movement in the US and elsewhere. Clearly those women marching last week on the nazi side were white, but there was a lot of suggestion that those white women not marching but associated with men marching (wives girlfriends etc) were just as culpable as the men wielding torches and assault rifles. I guess I would like some help understanding how this is a white woman issue rather than the white men being responsible for their own actions? I get that one of those pieces said those men are going home to pie cooked by their doting wives but I just feel as though a man who holds those views and has no issue with demonstrating them publically is unlikely to be a caring loving husband?
I am fully prepared to listen to all view points and I totally understand that the people on these marches are white, but they're mostly men, right? Sonhow is this women's fault?

Mother - you are not even making sense.

Me: there's more to it than that.

You: no there isn't.

Okey doke then. G'night.

In the UK or US, Copperbeech?

I only know about the uk

quencher, don't to where you get this crap, but talking about the thousands of teens I have taught in London, many of these aspects are statistically monitored, and are demonstrably crap, and others I know from my own experience of thousands and thousands of individuals , are also crap.

total crap.

total total total total total total total crap

to the extent that this type of bilge directed at my white students I would consider to be extremely damaging racism.

and so deeply deeply deeply ignorant, that I would consider it to be deliberate and willful ignorance. because you can't be that ignorant accidently

Quinton You can't ignore, minimise and trivialise the experiences of Women of Colour then claim to know so much about it. I thing you need to read the thread from page one

I posted on the thread on p1 and have been reading since then

Copper Quenchers post was as true as day, and given that I have workerd for the last 15 years and gone into contact with hundreds of young people which qualifyd Quenchers point. Given that I am a WOC with my network expanding to hundreds of other people of colour I think I'm in place to validate said points. It is not possible for people if colour to be racist given we didn't create or benefit from the system of White supremacy. However people of colour can be prejudiced however I see none of that on this post

Quinton then read again

What I don't like is the easy cop out of blaming feminists. The trans lobby does this too. Feminists aren't perfect, we're a broad church and no doubt there are arseholes amongst us. But you have little to fear from us, and generally we mean well and want to see equality. Bashing us because it's easier than taking your argument to the really scary people feels like some sort of safe zone where there's little comeback.

^^This. Great post Morris

Much my point is you claimed women lye about rape & I said that rhetoric is harmful to all women. You also claimed repeatedly that I lied about that yet I got it right word by word. Like sparticus said getting the wrong guy is not the women lying about rape, that's failure of the justice system.

A couple of points of those privilage- I do fear assualt my police, because I am a woman and was abused by a peadophile ring including police and social workers for most of my childhood. So I fear police.

I fear men equally, all men. As do my friends. Maybe that's a UK thing though.

If I reveal my birth country and my mother's country in the UK I experience prejudice and disgust. I'm whiter than white and have a strong Scottish accicient so I don't have to tell people but if I'm honest about my heritage I am looked down on here. We have alot of xenophobia in the UK. So I do fear that too. Shock and surprise that I got myself an education and career (because women from my birth culture drop out of school young and have children and maintain the home and nothing else). And if I tell people I get patronised for cutting ties with my mysogynistic heritage. Patted on the head for being more than what I was taught a woman should be.

Quinton then read again

How about your read my post on p12 and say what you think about that? Or respond to anyone else's questions to you first? Or are you just here to vent?

I've read some truly eye opening posts on here from WOC over the years (quenchers being common examples) and they've helped me understand.

Unfortunately on this thread it seems very hard to get the point of what you want. I'm sure I'm not the only poster who's frustrated with it.

Agree Morris' post was great.

gone

I didn't like the point about not being questioned about why you have been given a job. It is routinely implied women get jobs due to tokenism, white or black. White women are more likely to get the jobs but they are still questioned.
If a woman is attractive there may also be variants on "she slept with the boss" or "the boss fancies her". I've been told this as a motivation behind several jobs I've had.

I know it's easier for me to get a job than a black woman. But I (and all women) don't have the privilege listed in that article.

Thanks Quentin

Yes your right about that one.

And while I have my CSA as a reason to fear police I don't think I am the only woman who fears them. A woman alone with male police would he scared just due to social conditioning, that teaches us to be polite and compliant rather than set off men's anger. That's why women police are used when women victims or suspects are there whenever possible.

And re poster saying the black home less man didn't say anything of the abusive things sparticus said the white homeless man said, I think the point to note is that he could. And women, even white well educated well employed women could and would do nothing due to fear of men. Like a poster on the prostitute thread said she agreed to have sex with men she didn't want rather than risk violent rape. That's what women do, we appease men.

I should perhaps clarify. When I was abused as a child I was sexually abuse repeatedly by a woman also, and my birth mother was highly abusive (pimped me to her peadophile group friends) but despite being one of the few sexually abused by woman I fear only men. I would be comforted by the presence of a female police for example but terrified of the males (of whom there are much more) so imo it's more to do with the social conditioning that teaches women to fear men, appease them rather than risk violence, so I expect other white women, esiecially non British living in the UK, will fear police also. Men who have power are terrifying for all women.

I don't think who voted for trump necessarily tells us a lot either.
I campaigned in the general election, am in a safe Tory seat and my MP is generally odious and has done a lot of things most right thinking people would condemn. Yet a lot of voters see the election as red v. blue, if you don't want red you have to vote blue. The actual attributes of the person being voted for aren't a consideration, they are just a figurehead for blue. So a lot of voters I spoke to condemned the local MP but were still voting for him as they were anti Labour on a national level. A lot of voters would vote for a turkey with a blue ribbon.
I see it as a failing in two party politics. I assume the same happens in the USA. For Trump I blame the republican party for putting him forward as a candidate. They had an opportunity to remove him (after the "grab by the pussy" comment) that they didn't take.
For voters on the day, if they didn't want to vote Democrats or HRC for whatever reason, their choice was abstention (which lots of people did do) or Trump. That's it.

I also despair that again women are getting blamed, specifically white women. White women weren't Trump's main voter Base. White women didn't put Trump forward as a candidate. White women didn't select him as a candidate. It's flipping ridiculous how much focus is on white women as an explanation for this result.

Unfortunately on this thread it seems very hard to get the point of what you want. I'm sure I'm not the only poster who's frustrated with it

It's feeling very much like reddit or tumbler where we are all supposed to mime politically correct feelgood statements and virtue signal and pretend to take insults (like women fabricate rape claims against black men) and promise to wear hairshirts and whip ourselves rather than have an actual debate.

The original issue was whether women should be responsible for men's racism (specifically in respect to white-supremacists in the US). We've moved away from that, but I refuse to agree that we (or at least wives of) should be. Blaming women for the actions of men is what patriarchy does. If this is true, it is true of all women in all circumstances (or at least most), including WOC.

Here's a great list of black male privilege by the way

www.deanza.edu/faculty/lewisjulie/The%20Black%20Male%20Privilege%20Checklist.pdf

Excerpt

Sex & Sexuality
15. I can purchase pornography that typically shows men defile women by the common practice of the "money
shot.”
16. I can believe that causing pain during sex is connected with a woman's pleasure without ever asking her.
17. I have the privilege of not wanting to be a virgin, but preferring that my wife or significant other be a virgin.
18. When it comes to sex if I say "No", chances are that it will not be mistaken for “Yes".
19. If I am raped, no one will assume that "I should have known better" or suggest that my being raped had something to do with how I was dressed.
20. I can use sexist language like bonin’, laying the pipe, hittin it, and banging that convey images of sexual acts based on dominance and performance.
21. I can live in a world where polygamy is still an option for men in the United States as well as around the world.
22. In general, I prefer being involved with younger women socially and sexually
23. In general, the more sexual partners that I have the more stature I receive among my peers.
24. I have easy access to pornography that involves virtually any category of sex where men degrade women, often young women.
25. I have the privilege of being a part of a sex where "purity balls" apply to girls but not to boys.
26. When I consume pornography, I can gain pleasure from images and sounds of men causing women pain.

Oh and ofcourse women fear not being believed by police all the time.

Feminism was the worst thing to happen to the Black community expecially in America. It was never our fight on the first place, and this thread reaffirms my point why I and many other Black women are not Feminists. I have never seen such a long thread on feminist chat. The reason this thread continues is because the people on here are not used to their views challenged by women of colour

Feminism was the worst thing to happen to the Black community
Ah now we are getting to it.
Maybe your preconceptions of feminism are contributing to the issues on this thread.

There have been much much longer threads on here and we constantly have MRA's &TRA's challenging our views as well as many women as mysogyny is sadly just as common in men

Maybe your preconceptions of feminism are contributing to the issues on this thread

It was rather a telling statement, wasn't it?

It's s truthful one that I stand by, I never claimed to be a feminist in the first place.

let me saying again for those at the back

Feminism was the worst thing to happen to the Black community expecially in America. It was never our fight on the first place, and this thread reaffirms my point why I and many other Black women are not Feminists. I have never seen such a long thread on feminist chat. The reason this thread continues is because the people on here are not used to their views challenged by women of colour.

It's s truthful one that I stand by, I never claimed to be a feminist in the first place

Well, at least you owned up to it and confirmed suspicions.