White women- it's all your fault

[WeldMeDaphne]

I will preface this by saying that I am indeed a white woman. And I realise this affords me a lot of privilege.
Among a lot of the rhetoric around the Events unfolding in the US (mostly Charlottesville), I've seen a number of open letters to white women about our complicity in the neo-nazi and white supremacist movement in the US and elsewhere. Clearly those women marching last week on the nazi side were white, but there was a lot of suggestion that those white women not marching but associated with men marching (wives girlfriends etc) were just as culpable as the men wielding torches and assault rifles. I guess I would like some help understanding how this is a white woman issue rather than the white men being responsible for their own actions? I get that one of those pieces said those men are going home to pie cooked by their doting wives but I just feel as though a man who holds those views and has no issue with demonstrating them publically is unlikely to be a caring loving husband?
I am fully prepared to listen to all view points and I totally understand that the people on these marches are white, but they're mostly men, right? Sonhow is this women's fault?

Could you highlight the posts where woc described their own experiences? I didn't see those. I didn't see any vitriol either. Ironic.

Black men walking alone at night may fear being attacked by white men because of their skin colour.

White women will fear being attacked by white men and black men. Because of their sex.

I very much doubt black men fear being jumped by white women because of their skin colour. So black men still have that privilege over women.

Alot of criticism of HRC in run up to the election was because of her husband's affairs and accused sexual assualt (as opposed to trump's self admitted sexual assualt and accused rape of a child). So still despite everything she's achieved in her career she is held responsible and judged for her husband's actions not on her own merit.

Dumble the black disabled homeless man you said is less privileged isn't less privileged because he is male.
Or maybe it's easier to say that he is not disadvantaged by being male.

A women, even white, homeless disabled, would be less privileged precisely because she is a woman.

That's what class privilege is. It doesn't mean plenty of individual males will have it worse than plenty of individual women, but they don't have it worse because of their sex.

Dumble, you say that it wasn't said that white women make false rape allegations

But what much said word by word was

'In addition what about some of these women falsely reporting sexual assaults by black men, leading them to sending years in prison' minus the emoji thing. In the context it was quite clear that she meant white women and while I correctly paraphrased this neatly several times she claimed I made it up and demanded twice I repost her post despite me politely explaining my disabilities make it impossible for me to do so.

So yes Spartacus is right in that was the exact claim made.

I find it interesting that in the most recent posts people on here are far more comfortable in saying what they think are issues faced by POC.

I find it interesting we are told to educate ourselves and then told we are wrong for posting the results of that self education.

I am not really sure what you want people to do here, unless it's to shut down the debate. Which is not going to contribute to making feminism on this board more intersectional.

Yes I made the above point, and evidenced it too, clearly I don't mean all White Women but it has happened histororicalky and still does. What's your point

Quinton You can't ignore, minimise and trivialise the experiences of Women of Colour then claim to know so much about it. I thing you need to read the thread from page one

White women will fear being attacked by white men and black men. Because of their sex. Actually White Women appear to be more fearful of Black men.

MorrisZap I'm a WOC if you'd read the thread you would know this. Also if you had read the thread you would have seen said points. Stop being lazy and expecting me to point things out for you

Also if you had read the thread you would have seen said points. Stop being lazy

it always makes me laugh when posters come up with orders like this!

we are all here in our free time to chat, no obligation on anybody to read anything.

Why do some posters feel they can boss people around like this!?

Quiton educating yourself doesn't mean telling me what my experiences are.

Copper did you even read what the poster ask me to do, or where you do desperate to send a witty response .

Black men wanting White man priviledge. Interesting because a lot of people claim this priviledge does not exist, but what about White Women priviledge or does that not conveniently exist?

I would say it's the inability to see the advantages you have and assume everyone has the same chances and choices you have.
the state of living in a society which favours you and advances your chances of moving forward in life.

in what way are these perceived "privileges" related to being white?

In the UK or US, Copperbeech?

I would say it's the inability to see the advantages you have and assume everyone has the same chances and choices you have.
the state of living in a society which favours you and advances your chances of moving forward in life

I personally now have few chances or choices and very little ability to move forward in life. In what way does being white mean I do?

in what way are these perceived "privileges" related to being white?
"According to Peggy McIntoshh_, whites in Western societies enjoy advantages that non-whites do not experience, as "an invisible package of unearned assets".[1] White privilege denotes both obvious and less obvious passive advantages that white people may not recognize they have, which distinguishes it from overt bias or prejudice. These include cultural affirmations of one's own worth; presumed greater social status; and freedom to move, buy, work, play, and speak freely. The effects can be seen in professional, educational, and personal contexts. The concept of white privilege also implies the right to assume the universality of one's own experiences, marking others as different or exceptional while perceiving oneself as normal.[2][3]"

I managed to find a pre- written one by a white Person on how they view their privilege.
To be fair all of these are relevant to the uk. ( numbered below).

I would also,advice for those who have never watched the documentary which is mentioned here often on "will Britain ever have a black prime minters", the documentary details with white privilege especially white men, and mostly middle class white men. They also, talk about the chances of black child getting to that point of becoming prime minister and what you would have done in your life to be able to get to that position. You probably would have to put B. Obama to shame in the way you carry yourself, speak, act, education, family back ground and history.

Naomi posting the picture of British vogue workers and those who run it and have always have is a sign of privilege. (Yes, I do know they have a black male running it. But I know that always comes with joke too. So I won't be too comfortable)

-From experience I would add dating to this for black women when it comes stepping out of the black space.

-Representation of black women in general. There was an article that talked about how many articles, blogs, magazine pages which covered avocado recipes and what to do with them compared to black female issues in those same spaces.

List mentioned above. It's by a white Person. You could easily slightly change some of them and make them a feminist issue. So yes, different privileges.
1- I Have the Privilege of (Generally) Having a Positive Relationship with the Police

2- I Have the Privilege of Being Favored by School Authorities

3- I Have the Privilege of Attending Segregated Schools of Affluence

4- I Have the Privilege of Learning about My Race in School

5- I Have the Privilege of Finding Children’s Books that Overwhelmingly Represent My Race

6- I Have the Privilege of Soaking in Media Blatantly Biased Toward My Race

7- I Have the Privilege of Escaping Violent Stereotypes Associated with My Race

8- I Have the Privilege of Playing the Colorblind Card, Wiping the Slate Clean of Centuries of Racism

9- I Have the Privilege of Being Insulated from the Daily Toll of Racism

10- I Have the Privilege of Living Ignorant of the Dire State of Racism Today

http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/11/lessons-white-privilege-poc/

1-Because of white privilege, you'll never have to worry about becoming the victim of law enforcement officers.

2- Thankfully, you'll never have to know what it feels like to see your teenage son's death being mocked.

3-Because of white privilege, you'll never have to inform your children of the harsh realities of systemic racism.

4-White privilege means you can be articulate and well spoken without people being "surprised."

5-Because of white privilege, you'll never know what it's like to have the following statistic looming over your head. Accompanied by picture of prison sentence

6-You can wear and act however you'd like without being labeled a thug, low life, gangster, etc.

7-White privilege allows you to speak on any particular subject without being the sole representative for your entire race.

8- White privilege means no one questions why you got that really great job; it's assumed you were just highly qualified.

9-White privilege means not having to worry about your hair, skin color, or cultural accessories as the reason you didn't get a job.

10-White privilege means you don't have to worry about being monitored in a store just because the hue of your skin is a bit darker than most.

11-Having white privilege means people will never label you a terrorist.

12-White privilege means not being affected by negative stereotypes that have been perpetuated and ingrained so much into American society that people believe them to be fact.

13-White privilege means you never have to explain why cultural appropriation is a bad thing.

14-White privilege means not having to worry about being stopped and frisked.

15-If you benefit from white privilege, you'll never be told to "get over slavery."

16-White privilege means that you're never just your own person.

17-17. Benefitting from white privilege means you can walk the Earth unaware of your color.

Accompanying pictures that explains what I have just posted linked below. If you need clarification. Ask.

These are generalised ones that does not even include black women's only issue.

www.buzzfeed.com/michaelblackmon/17-harrowing-examples-of-white-privilege-9hu9?utm_term=.rgk32a6Qqj#.kb5r0d7KJn

YetAnotherSpartacus

I came across one of these on the train the other day with the exception that he wasn't black. He was calling women a range of sexist names from 'love' to 'cunt' and leering at us. No one stopped him. We all knew our places and shuffled up the carriage to be as far away as possible. giving up our seats as we did so.

In your own words, "what does that prove?" You might say inherent male privilege, but I can assure you that there are cultural issues here that complicate such a simplified explanation. There are a great many places (even in the UK) where people wouldn't quietly look at the floor and quietly shuffle their feet. Nice middle class - especially southern - people are terrified of confrontation. This is particularly true when someone appears to be mentally disabled. Most people in this country can't even make eye contact in public.

You could - and I'm sure you will - say that it is about women being intimidated by men, but I'd suggest that that is only one factor amongst many. You can't think of occasions where men haven't been intimidated by women? It would be a nonsense to suggest that a man could always just get out of a situation through physical force - and that would be the assertion your point rests on.

The black disabled homeless man's male privilege is worth less than that Starbucks coffee. Privilege can only really be measured in terms of the opportunities one has vs barriers to opportunity relative to one's position. Surmising that from blunt assessments of class is absurd. A theme of this whole thread, however is how extremely privileged white feminists can effectively include statistics that simply do not relate to their lives in their own assessment of the class they belong too. They are appropriating the oppression of others to their own individual cause.

Btw 42% of white women in America voted for Trump. That is A LOT of people.

Trump is the president. Roughly half of voting Americans chose him. This isn't news to anyone. The last president was black, roughly half of voting Americans chose him. I hope to god this is evidence of the political cycle and that sanity will prevail again, but in the meantime I will not hold women to a higher standard than men.

Men and women who vote for Trump are equally pathetic, and blaming women because they should know better is sexism writ large.

MorrisZapp

Contrary to holding women to a higher standard than men, I was referring to places on this thread where women haven't been held to the same standard, but rather excused from being racist. Various reasons were trotted out to mitigate their involvement in white-supremacist sentiment. As someone put it (far better than I can), treating women equally means acknowledging they can be arseholes too.

What Morris said. And 42% of American women didn't vote for Trump. That's a rubbish statistic. Finally, its not about women being intimidated by men as such or fear of confrontation. It is about justified fear of male violence and sexual assault. Men have power to name women - the fact that he was calling us 'cunt' was demonstrative of that.

Why do some posters feel they can boss people around like this

That's a really interesting question isn't it Copper?

My personal view is that all Trump voters are arseholes, regardless of gender, religion or ethnic background.

I don't see anyone on this thread denying that women can be racist. Of course women are racist, vast swathes of society are racist.

What I don't like is the easy cop out of blaming feminists. The trans lobby does this too. Feminists aren't perfect, we're a broad church and no doubt there are arseholes amongst us. But you have little to fear from us, and generally we mean well and want to see equality.

Bashing us because it's easier than taking your argument to the really scary people feels like some sort of safe zone where there's little comeback.

Well if you say so spartacus then it really must be as simple as that. Thanks for setting me straight. Gosh, the world is so much less nuanced than I thought it was.