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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

All gender toilets

159 replies

MissBax · 12/05/2017 18:43

Bit of a lurker on the fem chat usually but just wondered people's opinions on this.
At my university today I noticed they'd changed the women's toilets on one floor to "all gender" toilets. At first I thought ah ok that's not a big deal, there must be someone in the uni who is trans and that's why they've done it. But then when I came out of the toilets I noticed that the men's toilet and disabled toilet hadn't been changed. I can't understand the rationale of changing only the women's toilets? Or am I being overly sensitive? I'm not sure how I feel about it...

OP posts:
MrsDustyBusty · 12/05/2017 18:44

Would you ask why only the women's toilets are opened in this way? I think I'd be interested to know why is always only the women's facilities that have to be a free for all.

hazeydays14 · 12/05/2017 18:46

I guess because women's tend to have cubicles only whereas men's have urinals? Just from a completely practical point of view.
The disabled toilet would be all gender anyway surely unless they have one each for men and women.

VestalVirgin · 12/05/2017 18:49

This has been discussed with regard to a public toilet, where also only the women's toilet was changed. Many people here are very angry about it.

It is really revealing, isn't it?

Women's right to privacy is under attack.

It is not about trans people, it is about giving males access to women's spaces. If it were about trans people, they'd change the men's toilet, too.

That said, if you see a man in there, do ask him to leave and complain if he doesn't.
After all, the sign says "all genders", not "all sexes". Gender is a social construct. And there's no problem with female people who identify as trans, non-binary or dinosaur using the women's toilets

AssassinatedBeauty · 12/05/2017 18:51

I think I'd raise it with the relevant people along the lines of why do men get more facilities than women, alongside these free for all toilets. Why do men need their own separate toilets especially for them, when the same isn't provided for women?

VestalVirgin · 12/05/2017 18:53

I guess because women's tend to have cubicles only whereas men's have urinals? Just from a completely practical point of view.

So what? Transmen might want to use the urinals.

Clearly, women's privacy is not a consideration. Often, cubicle walls don't go all the way to the floor and ceiling, and there's been plenty reports of men filming under cubicle doors in unisex facilities.

So why should men be entitled to being protected from female gazes while they have their dicks in hand?

Datun · 12/05/2017 18:55

I would ask why are they discriminating against women on the basis of their sex.

Original poster
MissBax · 12/05/2017 18:58

I did wonder whether it was something to do with urinals. As if a man was stood at one and a trans person walked in they would be exposed? But it still seemed odd to me. I think I will ask though, it does seem strange that the women's facilities are the only ones affected.
hazey sorry you're right, the disabled ones would be anyway.

OP posts:
Thelilywhite · 12/05/2017 18:58

No you are not being oversensitive.This has been discussed on here a lot - probably far more eloquently that I can do but it makes me really angry.Whats happened to
our right to privacy to do the things the female sex must do in our own loos?Not to mention women who have been assaulted by men or must be segregated from them on religious grounds. Imo its jyst ticking pc boxes without any thought given to born womens rights.

BigDeskBob · 12/05/2017 18:59

Its a real head scratcher isn't it?

Mermaidinthesea123 · 12/05/2017 19:01

I don't want to share a toilet with men, none of them are house trained, it would be slippery with piss everywhere and God knows what kind of filth.

Datun · 12/05/2017 19:07

MissBax

Changing toilets has been discussed many times on the feminist boards.

Most women disagree profoundly with allowing men into their space.

But it really takes the biscuit if it's only women who are being forced to do this.

If they say it's because of the urinals and the men might feel embarrassed, you need to come back with the argument of why are women okay to be embarrassed, but not men?

Why can women's boundaries be violated but not men's? Ask for the reasons in writing.

Why are female students washing a moon cup in the sink, less entitled to privacy than men taking a piss?

It infuriates me that we have to defend ourselves like this.

hazeydays14 · 12/05/2017 19:07

I agree that it shouldn't just be women's privacy that is taken away. Like I said I was merely commenting from a practical point of view it may be why the men's toilets weren't chosen.

In my uni they changed the SU disabled toilets to have a transgender sign on the door as they were unisex anyway. This seems like a better idea wrt safeguarding women's spaces but you'd have people arguing that it would affect those that need the disabled toilets so short of building new facilities I'm not sure what the right answer would be.

AwkwardSquad · 12/05/2017 19:11

Men's loos have some cubicles as well as urinals. I'd argue with the facilities management to have all loos made unisex, and start marching into the (former) men's. Then see how long the policy lasts...

SoulAccount · 12/05/2017 19:12

We have 'all gender toilets', 'women's toilets' and 'urinals' (there are also a couple of cubicles in there).

But staff training is that women (incl transwomen) can use the women's toilets and anyone at all can choose to use the urinals.

Datun · 12/05/2017 19:16

hazeydays14

I agree that it isn't fair for disabled people, to suddenly change their toilets. Although, how many transpeople can there be?

But, in any event, gender neutral doesn't specify trans, it means anyone.

PencilsInSpace · 12/05/2017 19:19

The right answer is to keep existing toilets segregated by sex and to keep the accessible toilet primarily for disabled people. If trans people don't feel their requirements are being met they can campaign for the extra facilities they need, just as disabled people have. I suspect they'd get their extra unisex / 'all genders' toilets a helluva lot quicker than disabled people got accessible facilities. Frankly they could demand the moon on a stick right now and the world would bend over backwards to provide it.

I will cheerfully support any campaign for extra, gender neutral facilities but it's up to trans people to start that campaign. Meanwhile women are allowed to have boundaries without having to come up with solutions to the problem of where everybody else goes for a piss.

VestalVirgin · 12/05/2017 19:23

I agree that it isn't fair for disabled people, to suddenly change their toilets. Although, how many transpeople can there be?

Indeed. If the only option for trans is the disabled toilet, if therefore identifying as trans doesn't mean a male gets to invade women's spaces, there'll be much fewer trans people than disabled people.

It is only when identifying as trans gives men opportunity to molest women and invade women's spaces that it gets wildly popular with men and the numbers of allegedly trans males skyrockets.

VestalVirgin · 12/05/2017 19:30

I suspect they'd get their extra unisex / 'all genders' toilets a helluva lot quicker than disabled people got accessible facilities.

Certainly, they would. But they don't want them.
The new trans movement is all about invading women's spaces. It's the whole point of it.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 12/05/2017 20:10

OP are you going to raise this with the University? The simplest stance is why have men been allowed to keep single sex toilets which reduces the number of toilets available to women?

Men will choose the alternative cubicles for perfectly legitimate reasons- if the cubicles in the men's are full or they don't want to use a urinal.

They might be a minority but I know men who really don't like pee'ing in front of other men. Someone at work uses a unisex single occupancy cubicle 2 floors above his level for that reason.

Original poster
MissBax · 12/05/2017 20:31

Lass yes I'm definitely going to ask them. It's the fact that a) noone was even asked whether they'd be opposed to this. And b) noone was even informed about it.
If this was something they intended to do surely they could have asked for some feedback from the women who have been imposed upon first? How hard could it have been to send round an email?

OP posts:
morningrunner · 12/05/2017 21:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SylviaPoe · 12/05/2017 21:03

As there are people who are not men who may want to use urinals, common sense dictates that the toilets that also have urinals in them are the ones that get changed to gender neutral.

Original poster
MissBax · 12/05/2017 21:09

What's the best way to approach it? Email or in person?

OP posts:
Datun · 12/05/2017 21:13

if this was something they intended to do surely they could have asked for some feedback from the women who have been imposed upon first?

Yeah. Right.

Datun · 12/05/2017 21:14

SylviaPoe

Excellent point. The ones which should be gender neutral are the ones with the most facilities.