Fun fact: no law covering which toilet men or women can use!

[Iris65]

I know....isn't it?

All those threads getting so upset about ......trans people being able to do what everyone can already do!

So what is it that is exercising so many of the most prolific and vocal posters in this hot topic?

The victim is never to blame ever. I have been lucky with the men I have had relationships with. So yes in hindsight I have chosen good men. Fact. I wasnt so lucky with a stranger. I responded to someone saying most attacks are by boyfriends and husbands. I pointed out my attack wasn't. That's the point I wanted to put across.

I have clearly been in relationships with non violent men. That's all. My attacker was not known to me.

I think victims of domestic violence would realise thats what I meant to say but if not I apologise.

It's been very interesting to see how my post was used though.

that's a non apology and actually really offensive and minimising of my experience and upset.

My philosophy is: don't get in the mud with the pig. You'll only get dirty and the pig will enjoy it.

Scissorcisters

Are you relatively new to mumsnet?

Women come on here and share their experiences. There are too many, similar to yours, to even count. There is a narrative to male violence which, once you share it with others, you sometimes see a pattern.

A very common theme is the victim blaming themself, or being blamed by others. People on here are exceptionally highly tuned to the language surrounding that. Because it is very wrong, and holds women back from reporting.

The words and nuances get picked up on exceptionally quickly. It's a very good thing they do because language is crucial in forming opinions. Subtle language can change the meaning, and therefore the framing of many situations. We will need to make sure that the blame for male violence is left firmly where it belongs, with the men doing it.

Gin What is that comment supposed to mean?

I will never say "good taste in men" again. Lesson learned. But please read my other words too.

I am really sorry that anyone has been hurt in this thread.

I genuinely thought that as adults we could discuss, in as playful or serious manner as we wanted, without anyone being harassed or otherwise demeaned.

Annesmyth123 I hear you and I am sorry.

iris your OP was very ill judged especially in light of your comments on other threads. Finding it hard to believe it was "playful"

Also the erasure of women is not a "playful" topic.
What do you think about this?
globalnews.ca/news/3300518/concerns-over-transgender-client-at-okanagan-shelter/

Lass, that was in response to the post that started this thread.

QuentinSummers

Ffs. I'm actually speechless. A rape refuge set up for women is allowing a man in on the basis of a feeling in his head and throwing two women out who object.

I don't know whether that transwoman was genuine or not.

The fact is a transwoman with AGP would find a rape refuge the pinnacle of achievement. And there would be numerous, numerous men who would like to get inside, for a whole multitude of different reasons, none of them good.

I can't believe this is getting reported on the news like something that's just a bit off. Presumably that is not how they really feel.

Women really are at the bottom of the pile. Now more than ever.

And they were expected to share a room with him. Share a fucking room!

I actually agree that a woman who has been abused should not be expected to share a room with a person who has adult male genitals.
I also think that hospital wards where men and women share bays are problematic.
That is not the same as allowing people to use a toilet or challenging their gender identity.
The service providers are being unreasonable by expecting people to to accept others with adult male genitals to be naked around others when it is upsetting to others.
Totally different to someone walking into a lavatory and using a cubicle.
Totally different to allowing people to transition their gender.
Reasonable to expect those who are trans with adult make genitals to change in a cubicle.
Reasonable to make provisions so that women who object don't share a room or a hospital ward.
Unreasonable to refuse those who identify as female to access domestic violence services.
Unreasonabke to call someone who is transitioning 'he' when they have stated that they don't want that pronoun used. If you're uncomfortable using 'she' then try saying 'they'. That way you don't cause offense or conflict.

However......none of us know what lurks in the underwear of others. I don't want to see other peoples' genitals in any context other than very specific ones 😉
If a woman sharing the room with me was flashing her genitals I would ask her to cover herself up just as I would ask a man to cover up his genitals.
So it begs the question - how did they know that the other person had adult male genitals? If they were flashing them that is an issue separate from the issue of expecting a woman to share a room which I dealt with above.
If they didn't see them or weren't told then the issue is one of perception. Would they have objected to a woman who looked and behaved in a masculine way?

I think it is important to remember that TA's are highly manipulative, it is part of their narcissistic personality. They will try and goad women in the hopes that they can shift the focus off themselves and create infighting, it is a divide and conquer tactic. They do it so they can appear like the good guys, I think it is best to ignore them.

Yep. Don't give them the satisfaction of engaging. It only allows them to play the victim card.

I actually agree that a woman who has been abused should not be expected to share a room with a person who has adult male genitals. I also think that hospital wards where men and women share bays are problematic
OK. So how would you protect these areas while at the same time allowing people to gain legal recognition as a woman based on their feminine gender identity?
Toilets are a red herring. As you have had explained to you on other threads.

I should say based solely on their own assessment of their feminine gender identity. Need to start using preview button.

I agree, gin and witching

Some just want a platform to spout their ideas, not really engage with others.

Some just want a platform to spout their ideas, not really engage with others

Yep. Although 'ideas' is a bit generous.

Yes, spartacus I had written a different word but didn't want to get deleted.

:) Well opinions would do I suppose. We are all entitled to them, no matter how off the planet they may be.

I don't mind engaging with anyone. What I object to is people say they are engaging, when they read nothing of the links posted.