Trans law in USA

[sassandfaff]

Trump administration rescinds transgender students' bathroom protections

Trump pulls transgender law

I also wonder how men feel about this the other way round, do they want unisex toilets?? Or would they prefer their own spaces

I've only ever seen 2 views given by men on opposing unisex toilets.

Either, they don't want men (trans woman) in the toilet with their daughters or they don't like the idea because it would mean queues.

dan

You might want to start with this site. It was originally set up to help parents of children who were being exposed to online pressure to transition.

It shows up the contradictions and illogical nature of the ideology.

It also examines the nature of AGP (autogynephilia) from the trans perspective, using examples of how insidious it can be and why the trans community are so keen to hide it.

transgenderreality.com/tag/autogynephilia/

We can have individual toilet cubicles with sinks and walls that go down to the ground, but that's not really solving the issue, is it?

It's about the precedent that gets created.

What about women's shower rooms?
What about women's changing rooms?
What about women's shelters?
What about women's prisons?
What about women's scholarships/awards/statistics?
What about women's sports?
What about women who want a female healthcare provider because they have been traumatized in the past?
What about the person who feels you up at the airport?

The transgender activism movement is a long sequence of "Oh, that is TOTALLY hypothetical and would never happen in reality... oh wait, dear me, it just did happen. Whoops! Oh well, too late to do anything about it now. The law is already passed--what can we do?"

For example: We have already had numerous incidents of dangerous male prisoners deciding that they are female and should have the right to be in women's prisons. Well-Intentioned but poorly-thought out laws which increasingly base gender identity on self-proclamation alone are leaving us in a situation where we have no legal way to get rid of people like this.

YY Mary. I am not inclined to compromise at all. As you say it opens the floodgates.

It always comes down to the faith that trans women are women, you either believe that, or choose to go along with the idea so you you don't cause offence, or you choose not to believe.

You have to draw a line in the sand and if it's bathrooms then so be it.

If your feminism is pissing people off then you're probably doing it right

There doesn't seem to be any consideration for women from other minority groups either. Some Muslim women or orthodox Jewish women may be excluded socially because their religious beliefs prohibit them from being uncovered in front of men and they may see transwomen with male genitals as men.

Since the bathroom bill is designed for students I think a lot of people are just visualising traumatised trans children, which is fair enough. They are failing to see it will open the floodgates for hairy arsed Bert the builder to stick on a dress and be in the female changing rooms because he's a "woman".

Dame - that sums it up really.

At the end of the day, if you're uncomfortable with something you shooukd be able to question it without being shouted down Nd your feelings marginalised.

I had a long drawn out argument on this on fb with a very clever woman in probably the most academically esteemed profession in the world. My problem is womens safety and rights. I never mentioned trans being a danger once, just predators taking advantage. I was told I was equivalent to a Trump supporting racist in a couple of the replies. I didn't go low back and looking over it I think I came out well and got my points across well. We did agree at the end the real issue was men and I do feel ultimately it was a real debate despite a couple of low blows. Yes we do have to be brave to raise this, due to the fear of being seen as bigots. People should have been braver in Rotherham too. I am not a bigot and I'm sick of the liberal left closing down all debate on any subject they do not agree with. It's causing real harm and fuelling the rise of the right. Masters of their own destruction springs to mind.

Interesting, if slightly superficial, programme last night on political correctness by Trevor Philips, covering the all sorts of ways in which discussions are being stifled, including the no-platforming of Germaine Greer. He sounded genuinely astonished that she was considered a bigot (although taken out of context, and without knowing the debates raging here, it does sound a bit strong!) . His conclusion was that we should all learn to live with feeling offended sometimes if real debate is going to be held on important topics.

I don't think he agreed with or was impressed with Paris Lees. Funny how we see things. I thought Lees came over as an arse but their twitter feed has Lees hailed as a hero.

bamb

I've recorded it. Is it going to send my blood pressure into the stratosphere?

No it was quite balanced (although the students banning sombreros were funny). I quite liked the fact they had a transwoman (not a celebrity one) talking about her inability to speak up about immigration without being called a bigot.

What are the stats on transwomen being assaulted? All the women here, worried about sexual assault, so willing, so demanding, to put other people at risk of the same thing.

There has to be a better way, surely?

There is no evidence that they are at risk in using the correct bathroom for their sex. And it's not just about safety, it's about respect for women's boundaries, privacy and dignity. Most women don't want to share with men.

But you know, RTFT.

Scottish - I do keep an eye on this - do you have any reports of transwomen being assaulted in the men toilets?

Do you have any stats on the level of assault (outside of prostitution) that transwomen face vs. women?

Your statement can be turned around, why do transwomen (who, as males, will generally be larger and stronger than most women) want to put women (and themselves - since if a transwoman is allowed in, then any male has to be) at increased risk of assault?

What are the stats on transwomen being assaulted? All the women here, worried about sexual assault, so willing, so demanding, to put other people at risk of the same thing.
Who is doing the assaulting and sexual assaulting? It's males.

There has to be a better way, surely?
Yep. Develop no tolerance to male violence rather than enabling it. Stop supporting the idea that GNC males must be women and give men penalties for assaulting trans women in the loos.
I liked the idea up thread about making mens toilets unisex.
A woman is not a non-man

scottish

There aren't any reports on transwomen being attacked in male bathrooms. Least not in the UK. Just google it. There aren't any.

I read something - sorry can't remember the source that said the stats about assaults on trans women came from the us and were based on trans women of colour who tended to be sex workers.

scottishdiem Thu 23-Feb-17 19:41:43 The problem of tarns men in women's loos is easily solved by making men's facilities unisex.

The claim that transwomen should be allowed in women's sex-segregated spaces because otherwise they are at risk of male violence is a nonsense.

First, what about all the other men at risk - effeminate gay men for instance? Second, as soon as men are allowed in if they claim to be women then any creep can - and will - do exactly that.

Because as soon as transwomen are allowed in women's spaces they stop being single sex.

Datun how to post a clicky link with text:

URL here's your text

So no space then URL then space Here's your text no space

Earlier in this thread posters were discussing various sexual abuses they had experienced that would not have been of interest to the police.

Seems to me that if we reach a situation where any man can decide he's a woman one day that, sure, there'll be an increase in rapes and violent attacks, but what we will see a massive rise in what you might call below the radar assaults.

Say you're in the ladies and become aware that a man in the next cubicle is wanking, what are you going to do? Or if some man who may be trans or just a cross dresser is staring at you in the shower? What are we going to say? I could hear him/he was staring? An ever increasing body of minor intrusions, incidents that make women feel violated, disgusted and insecure.

There's a blog post here that suggests transmen still use women's facilities regardless of transition because the men's are too dangerous. Personally I don't blame them at all - they're female - but it strikes me that if we women are expected to accommodate everyone who is trans loos will end up being split like the Green party: men and non-men.