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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans law in USA

221 replies

sassandfaff · 23/02/2017 10:21

Trump administration rescinds transgender students' bathroom protections

Trump pulls transgender law

OP posts:
RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 23/02/2017 20:59

Agree with datun and hangry

DameDeDoubtance · 23/02/2017 21:02

Yes Twisted I knew they were aroused, sometimes visibly so. To some men dressing up in female clothing is a fetish and going into a shoe shop and having a young girl wait on you is a turn on. Of course I didn't call the police, I was a young woman working in a shop, I put up with all sorts of shit from men and didn't call the police.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 23/02/2017 21:02

You must lead a pretty sheltered life if you think the police would give you a sympathetic hearing if you complained that a man was getting sexually aroused, DanGle.

I would be surprised if any of the women hadn't been aware of a man getting sexually aroused in a non-intimate setting. Off the top of my head I can think of twice on public transport - no, I lie, three times. And I've been flashed at twice. Even the school didn't bother calling the cops.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 23/02/2017 21:05

Sorry, first sentence, second para, "I would be surprised if any of the women posting here.

lottieandmia · 23/02/2017 21:11

Trans women commit crimes at the same rate as men. I think that shows why women are so vulnerable in rape crisis centres when any man can decide he's a woman and gate crash a rape crisis centre. People like Ian Huntley are clearly latching onto the idea that they can use the law to prey on vulnerable women and it's terrifying.

DanGleballs · 23/02/2017 21:12

To be fair I didn't bother calling the police when me and my kids were flashed at on the way to the Bethnal Green Toy Museum. Maybe we should. Turning a blind eye to the lower level shit we put up with enables them to continue.

DameDeDoubtance · 23/02/2017 21:13

Bloody hell, try working in retail for a week! I've been stalked, threatened, chased round the shop by drunk men, marriage proposals (3) and don't even get me started on the religious punters, do you have any idea how many people will try to convert you over footwear. You're a sitting duck, and you have to be nice.

DanGleballs · 23/02/2017 21:15

Rape centres and prisons should be totally out of the question for any sort of man. Even arguably transmen too.

lottieandmia · 23/02/2017 21:20

Trans men are not men though, biological,y.

venusinscorpio · 23/02/2017 21:21

I don't agree that they should be inaccessible to transmen. Transmen are women. Not all transmen actively want to access the same services as men. Very few pass as well as the examples below, but it could simply be explained that they were female, not male.

SisterMoonshine · 23/02/2017 21:28

I struggle to do a proper wee in the loos at work when I'm aware of a woman in the next cubicle.
A man would put me off completely.
I'd rather there were unisex or 'none-of-your-business' loos AS WELL AS segregated ones.

PencilsInSpace · 23/02/2017 21:31

Couple of pages behind but:

I suppose I'm not happy with the idea of penalising the genuine for the behaviour of others. Maybe a better way of putting it is fighting for the rights of everyone not to be put in danger.

Not All Men are sexual abusers or voyeurs or flashers. Shall we let them all in our toilets so we don't 'penalise the genuine'? Lots of men are vulnerable in the gents - gay men, disabled men, BME men, neurodiverse men, men with MH issues, gender non-conforming men, men who are smaller and physically slighter than average, homeless men, men with substance misuse issues ...

I'm all for fighting for the rights of everyone not to be put in danger but we don't get there by just letting everyone in the ladies.

Datun · 23/02/2017 21:51

DanGleballs

We don't have to agree on everything Grin.

I'm leaning slightly to one side and you are leaning slightly to the other. We agree on most of it.

My position is that 'making a significant effort' doesn't mitigate the reasons or the motivation in the slightest. Lots of men with autogynephilia do make a significant effort. Their goal is to 'become a woman', to wear a woman's skin.

The bottom line is, there is absolutely no way of knowing if the man in your space is getting a kick out of it, is a predator, is a brilliantly passing transmen, just wants to pee, is a rapist, or has walked in by mistake.

And you either consider that women have the right to deny them entrance, or consider that the few trans people with authentic gender dysphoria should have the right to enter to make them feel comfortable, despite objection, and open the floodgates to everyone.

Sometimes you just have to pick a side. It doesn't mean you don't have compassion for people or you would rather be inclusive if you could, or any normal human traits.

But sometimes you get forced into a position where you have to make a choice.

Personally I would like to see a third category called transgender. Their own rights, and spaces, their own sports and their own specific needs. But they don't want that. They want women's.

DanGleballs · 23/02/2017 22:13

Datum I think you are right. We are very close on views. Even where we disagree I can appreciate your arguments and, with mulling time, could be swayed. Maybe my ideas aren't so fucked up! Grin

Bambambini · 23/02/2017 22:13

Dan - the unisex loo and showers were in a hostel in europe. The men were very intimidating (i coild see their feet under the stall door as they stood right outside the door) but as an adventurous 21 yr old we shrugged it off - i was with another female friend though - would have been a lot worse if i had been on my own in there with them.

DanGleballs · 23/02/2017 22:26

I can imagine that was quite creepy and I wouldn't have been overly comfortable either. I'm not sure whether the YMCA has the same issues but I must admit I would want to try with adults before taking kids.

Bambambini · 23/02/2017 22:27

Thing is, if it had stayed at what look like the odd real TW in our loos it probably wouldn't have gotten much attention and wouldn't have been a huge issue. But if we call them women just like us and give them legal access to loos - then really how can you keep them out of all other traditionally female domains. The TAs demands have forced many of us to have to take a much harsher stand than we wanted to. Now we have males running for women's officers in students unions, suing rape centres to be allowed to be councillors, in womens prisons, wards, female colleges, winning womens sports events.

I've seen several feminist groups recently delightedly making statements saying women who question any of this at all are not welcome and calling them evil terfy bigots whilst their TW members chip in with the insults. It's infuriatingly mind boggling.

DanGleballs · 23/02/2017 22:32

Surely no feminist groups are agreeing with penises being in women's prisons? That is a total different issue and I can't see anyone except the terminally politically correct or militant trans arguing for.

DanGleballs · 23/02/2017 22:33

How many do you actually see though? Barring 'alternative' pubs I have seen the same few around town and a handful in my entire life in public loos.

Bambambini · 23/02/2017 22:36

Many Feminist groups are for total inclusion in every way. Women can have penises so of course should be in womens prisons - in every female domain. Are you new to the debate and what is being pushed?

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans · 23/02/2017 22:38

Dan, the Women's Equality Party pushed for Tara Hudson to be moved to a women's prison. Complete with record for violent assault and seven-inch-surprise (as touted on sex sites) in full working order.

DanGleballs · 23/02/2017 22:55

Yes totally new to be honest. Women's prisons are totally off limits for me as I have already explained on his thread. A special unit for all transgendered people would be more suitable around.

Bambambini · 23/02/2017 23:10

Dan - Be careful where and who you share that with. That's enough to get you branded a bigoted Terfy transphobe, your work might get letters demanding you be sacked. You are not allowed to voice any gender critical (bigoted anti trans) views.

BLM2017 · 23/02/2017 23:14

Never thought I would agree with the cheese ball but yes to this

BLM2017 · 23/02/2017 23:16

There are very few spaces that are women only, looks like they will be non existent within the next 10\15yrs.

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