Trans law in USA

[sassandfaff]

Trump administration rescinds transgender students' bathroom protections

Trump pulls transgender law

I sometimes wonder how many people are genuinely gender dysphoric? I also wonder how many children and young people have been adversely affected by adults "hijacking" gender dysphoria and making it a "cause". This seemingly hysterical response to the Trump administration determining that each state has the final say on what is appropriate for their state beggars belief. I really feel sorry for the children and young people caught up in the politicalisation of what should be a very personal and private matter. I cannot understand why parents seem to want the world to know about their particular child, how many parents of children with other health issues rant and rave in this way?

I'm glad I'm not the only one feeling uncomfortable with being on the same side as Trump and right wing groups. I'd started to worry that we'd become a sort of echo chamber on this. On Sass point, a lot of the bathroom furore seems to be coming from transwomen who feel threatened in using men's toilets. Leaving aside the level of risk in this, what about transmen? Given the reports of transmen still being raped despite their male presentation, how does the legislation help them? If the argument is that transgender people should use the bathroom of the gender they identify with won't there be an increased risk to transmen having to use men's bathrooms when it's discovered that they have a vagina? Where is their voice in this?

I am so glad Mumsnet allow us these conversations and want to thank all the wise and eloquent feminist contributors that have helped me reach peak trans and probably Terfdom to boot. I have two Dd and am feeling so depressed about what they might have to put up with.
I was an ardent supporter but where this narcissistic juggernaut is heading is nowhere good.
I just read a tweet on another thread from a MtT saying they wanted to kick a child for questioning their presence in a toilet. This is absolutely abhorrent.

For me the whole issue with Trans women using the same spaces as biological women is this: How are we meant to tell the genuine Transwomen from the opportunistic predators?

For me the whole issue with Trans women using the same spaces as biological women is this: How are we meant to tell the genuine Transwomen from the opportunistic predators?

EXACTLY.

And the fact that none of the transactivists pushing for access seem bothered about answering that question implies to me that they don't feel threatened at all. They just want to be validated.

Who really feels comfortable confronting someone who doesn't look female though? There are many people who I have met where their sex is not obvious, many women who really do look quite masculine. Sometimes seeing a penis is the only way to tell and if they are waving a penis around there are laws to cover that. Maybe we need sentencing along the same lines as for dodgy coppers etc . You have been allowed into the female toilets and put in a position of trust. The crime should then be more severe for abusing that position of trust.

Miriam Ben Shalom said in a fascinating talk on The Heritage Foundation http://www.heritage.org/marriage-and-family/event/biology-isnt-bigotry-why-sex-matters-the-age-gender-identity
that women are meant to be accepting and accommodating of Trans demands but why can they not reciprocate? Why must our highly legitimate concerns and questions be ignored/no-platformed/shut down? This is no longer a discussion wherein we work together to reach a solution that works for all and becomes a dictatorial regime.

They just want to be validated

Validation, access for fetishising cross dressers, access for predators identifying as women.

Because if it really and truly was just a place to pee, not a single trans-person would care if all toilets were changed to single stall unisex.

But they do care, they care very much. And they are all men.

Equally Dan, if a man attacks a transwoman in a men's toilet (and I don't believe any incidents have been documented yet) there are laws to cover that.

It says a lot that Trump is agreeing with your opinions on this issue.

Just say you are starting a petition for Lian Huntley to be moved to a women's prison and would like some support.

But Trump doesn't agree with our opinions. Trump said that Caitlyn Jenner was welcome to use the women's in Trump tower.

Just because two people agree on an action, doesn't mean they agree for the same reasons.

For example: I prefer long skirts to short skirts because I don't like the feeling of cold air around my nethers. People in some countries wear long skirts because women mustn't show their legs. Just because we both prefer long skirts to short skirts doesn't mean that we agree on anything else, least of which the reasons for our preferences.

There is a big difference from saying that there could be a middle ground on the loo debate to allowing penises (peni ?) In women's prisons. I don't believe a woman should be locked up with anyone with a penis. I don't believe that anyone who has or has had a penis should compete in women's sports. I'm on the fence with true intersex people. Rape centres should be sex segregated also. I can't get het up about the loo issue though.

jaxing

As someone who would see it as an absolute insult to be called a liberal or a progressive....... meh.

I also don't like the pink obsession with girls or boys don't cry etc. Surely we should be aiming for a world where what you have in your pants is unimportant. Unisex changing rooms, loos etc. No gendered toys or clothes. My vagina features very little in any thought processes I have.

Unfortunately though Dan they cannot be separated if you legislate that self identifying as a gender makes you that gender.

Does it have to be that black and white. I would feel equally threatened by an aggressive lesbian in a 'female' zone. You can't make changing rooms straight and non-butch lesbians only.

And for the avoidance of doubt (despite the username) I do not have dangly balls and am still in possession of the vagina I was born with.

I don't know that it has to be, but I could take a wild guess that the more vocal transwomen would not accept that they could only be considered female for the use of public toilets, but prisons etc they have to be seen as men.

I wouldn't feel equally threatened at all. They have no Penis to rape you with, and I would think in a lot of instances I would have a 50/50 chance of overcoming any violent attack. Obviously if they are 5 stone heavier and a foot taller, I'm battered but what's the % of women that are that, compared to the % of men that are bigger than the average woman.

It's just not the same odds at all. I'd take my chances against a woman. I'd probably fear for my life against a man.

Again, a sensible option would be a special unit for trans people. Then no one's rights are infringed. It is a shame that there is an extreme wing of trans people as it results in an equally extreme response from some women. In a world full of reasonable people we could deal with the shades of grey in an empathic way whilst not infringing anyone's safety or dignity. Humans are their own worst enemy unfortunately.

Time to move towards all loos built or renovated from now on being collections of single cubicles of various sizes, each continaing sinks and mirrors. Plenty of places, especially museums, have this now and it doesn't appear to cause difficulties.

And I wish people would be honest and admit that all the current problems are caused by male violence, or the reasonable fear of it: men-only spaces tend not to be safe for women, children, trans people and frankly, plenty of men who are in any way different from the norm. That's where the difficulties arise.

How come we go through this entire rigmarole without anyone saying 'You know, we really ought to do something about male violence, especially sexual violence, and then sex segregation could become so much less of a thing'.

But no. Apart from the femionists, no one ever does.

I do apologise for the typos. I am cross.

I'm fairly vertically challenged and a bit of a wuss with confrontation so most people above the age of fifteen could be considered a threat to me. Like many women I have been sexually assaulted on more than one occasion. The classic stranger rape with penetration was the abuse that scarred me the least. All the abuse was by men/boys but other "lesser!!' sexual assaults can be just as and more damaging.

And yes the main problem is violent men. Not all men and not always men but in the massive majority of cases. If women weren't in fear of being attacked by men we wouldn't be concerned about a bloke in a skirt using the ladies.

"I would argue for woman to keep their own toilets and to make the male toilet the unisex ones. "

This