British 'man' becomes pregnant

[slithytove]

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/first-british-man-reveal-hes-9582789

Sorry, it's a mirror link

I don't usually post about this stuff, but it's really annoyed me this time.

Now 'men' can get pregnant? So 'men' will need maternity leave, 'men' will need maternity services, probably somehow different to women's.

Is it just me or does the fact they are calling this person a man instead of a transman, allow men (people born as men) to take even more from women under the trans rights umbrella?

Who would it hurt to call this pregnant person a transman?

I guess we should be grateful this person was born as a woman and is therefore socialised to not put themselves first.

You cannot tell the sex of a person by looking at the brain.
Adults develop different brain structures through life, such as addicts have a more active amagdala, taxi drivers have a more active area...
But I gather generally the sexed brain thing is debunked.

Black Cabbies rather.
Taxi drivers all use Sat-Nav now so their brains are probably half asleep

Rufus

If you advance search kim147, you might find the article; I think it was a link from Kim.

IIRC, it was a theory, supported by some studies, that the environment of the womb might be a factor in the development of sex dysphoria (which I think is a more accurate description than gender dysphoria).

I consider it possible that an environmental factor like this might influence brain receptor growth that in turn could influence an individual's comfort with their own body (as maternal nutrition influences ultimate height, say).

Note: a factor; I doubt, even if more studies supported the influence, that all trans people would be found to have had the same womb environment and that no non-trans people did.

It in no way said there were girl brains and boy brains, IIRC.

There is a programme on BBC tonight at 9 o'clock tonight about the transing of children and the ethics involved. As far as I know it's the first mainstream programme giving an opposing view to the generally accepted trans party line.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b088kxbw

Shona Feye and Ray Blanchard were on Newsnight last night talking about it.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b088k0mb/newsnight-11012017

It's at 33.45 towards the end. Makes interesting watching.

I hope the programme is going to be shown. There was a petition calling for it not to be shown until "gender experts" had had a chance to censor review it

I have a bridge you would be interested in buying. It's pretty. And cheap

Give the gall a break ... the idea of a virgin birth worked wonders for one major world religion.

Now, about that bridge ...

Meanwhile, I'm not sure that there is neurophysiological evidence for very much at all. Brain science is still developing.

WE have one article, for example, by a duo, one of whom is the aptly named 'Dick Swaab' that claims that even paedophilia is determined in-utero.

journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1073858410377005

Another 2015 chapter, by a Randi Ettner, concludes that,

"The etiology of gender identity, typical and atypical, presently remains unknown. However, the mounting evidence for a biological basis is compelling. No doubt the next decade will bring new data that elucidates the complexities of identity formation and amplifies understanding of the transsexual phenomenon".

A 2017 paper by Bramble et al notes that

"Evidence provided from the rodent model has laid the groundwork for our understanding of how in utero hormonal milieu and chromosomal composition influence brain development and contribute to generating observed sex differences. Unfortunately, similar research in humans in adequate depth is lacking from a biological standpoint. Investigating sex differences in human brain structure and cognitive development is challenging because humans are a socially influenced species, making it difficult to tease apart the effects of environmental influences from biological contributions."

In other words - there is little evidence and the jury is out.

Jesus I'm just watching the clip on Newsnight - 'I didn't like being a boy, I didn't like the games or the hairstyles'.

seek

It's very disturbing. No mention of gender dysphoria. And she becomes confused about whether she wants to transition into a boy or a girl. And then looks uncomfortable and worried about surgery. And being photographed and feted for being trans. FFS.

I sincerely hope this documentary brings up the facts surrounding the trans-ideology. Shon Feye said something about it not being a fad or a fashion (can't quite remember the wording) I wonder how she squares that with a poster on here where five girls came out as trans the same time in her daughters class.

Shon Feye came across as absolutely idiotic!

Investigating sex differences in human brain structure and cognitive development is challenging because humans are a socially influenced species, making it difficult to tease apart the effects of environmental influences from biological contributions.

Exactly. I don't see it will ever be possible to empirically isolate innate determinants of brain development from environmental ones. The concept of neuroplasticity, if it is legitimate, renders any such distinction meaningless.

"I don't see it will ever be possible to empirically isolate innate determinants of brain development from environmental ones"

You don't see =/= Is not.

There are studies on newborn male & female babies that show innate differences. Again, scholar.google.com would be useful if you care to seek enlightment.

Shon Faye apparently does work with trans children? Presumably making sure the false suicide stats are hammered home to the parents. Ffs.

Also, working with a self-selecting group of children who want to talk about the possibility they are 'trans', and who are receptive to Shon's ideology on the matter.

Yes exactly. Very worrying. Shon is hardly one to give a balanced view, going by their newsnight performance

Surely if you take trans ideology to its logical conclusion, the search for girl / boy brains is transphobic.

The brain is part of the body, it physically exits just as genitals exist. No TRA would say that a man is not a woman because he has a penis, he has a gender identity which overrides everything else. So surely detectable physical brain differences are just the same as genitals. If I, as feminist, denied a transperson's gender identity because they were shown not to have a brain that supposedly goes with their gender feelz I would be being transphobic, non?

I was under the impression that gender identity was entirely about how a person feels about themselves and that no-one, ever, can question those feelings. Trans ideology would be massively contradictory if detectable brain biology was a requirement for gender identity to be considered legitimate. And if it is possible to be trans without the brain biology then the brain is irrelevant and proves nothing.

So surely detectable physical brain differences are just the same as genitals

Not really, because the brain changes in response to environmental influences.

Hoist by their own petard, Beachcomber?

Sorry I italicised the wrong bit there!

So surely detectable physical brain differences are just the same as genitals

Not really, because the brain changes in response to environmental influences.

Good point, beach. Fine logic.

Thanks Helen and ophelia

I domt believe it myself but i saw a facebook comment by a friend who has stated as absolute fact that

...At eight weeks all the embryos are female and trans people are created at that point when the hormones are 'added' to a lesser or greater extent. Trans people are born in the wrong body and sometimes it can take a long time to realise that they are trapped in the wrong body...

I have no intentions of arguing with them as i believe someone close to them is struggling with the issue, but want to be sure of my facts (that nothing has been proved and at the moment all we have is theory) before it comes up in conversation with freinds or family

Grr! Aargh!

Beach's point, qwerty, was that IF genitals and/or chromosomes can be considered irrelevant in a trans person's identification, and not to do so is transphobic, THEN brain chemistry or structure differences are equally irrelevant.

"At eight weeks all the embryos are female"

This is incorrect. The sperm that meets the egg is sexed: it provides either an X or a Y chromosome. The zygote is male or female from the get go.

(Ignoring intersex, which in some conditions has a third chromosome, I believe)

I don't mean that brains and genitals are literally the same or function the same way.

I mean that they would logically be considered, in trans ideology, to have the same value or lack of with regard to the legitimacy of a person's gender identity.

Yes, that's exactly it HelenDenver. Thought it was quite clear!

Thanks for your post.