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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

British 'man' becomes pregnant

511 replies

slithytove · 08/01/2017 10:50

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/first-british-man-reveal-hes-9582789

Sorry, it's a mirror link

I don't usually post about this stuff, but it's really annoyed me this time.

Now 'men' can get pregnant? So 'men' will need maternity leave, 'men' will need maternity services, probably somehow different to women's.

Is it just me or does the fact they are calling this person a man instead of a transman, allow men (people born as men) to take even more from women under the trans rights umbrella?

Who would it hurt to call this pregnant person a transman?

I guess we should be grateful this person was born as a woman and is therefore socialised to not put themselves first.

OP posts:
Original poster
slithytove · 11/01/2017 22:24

Don't know how to say this without coming across wrong, but in the same way that transwomen are the transpeople posing problems, I would say that in the case of the transman who is pregnant, it is the 'menz' who would abuse that scenario by trying to give themselves pregnancy rights / remove them from being a solely women's protection.

I imagine the transman / many transman in this scenario would just want to get on with things, due to the socialisation mentioned above.

OP posts:
Original poster
slithytove · 11/01/2017 22:29

That's really interesting beach, so what does 'enceint' mean normaly then? I understand enceinte means pregnant but as you say this is a feminine adjective.

OP posts:
Silverdream · 11/01/2017 22:30

Was his partner gay , bisexual or straight.

ageingrunner · 11/01/2017 22:34

It was a sperm donor, Silverdream. I think she found him on Facebook. He didn't charge for the sperm.

SpeakNoWords · 11/01/2017 22:39

One of the things that I find unsettling about this situation is the ease that there seems to have been in finding an informal "sperm donor" via Facebook. They don't know anything about the donor, about their health and family health. There's absolutely no way that the child can find out anything about their biological father should they need or want to.

Beachcomber · 11/01/2017 22:47

I've looked into a bit more - and it seems the most common usage is not as a noun but a 3rd person masculine past participle. It means "enclosed" as in "he enclosed the garden with a wall".

The article was trans positive - it was pretty well a straight translation of the article in the OP.

LowDudgeon · 11/01/2017 22:56

this trans couple in Ecuador had a baby last year

I could not get my head round it (still can't)

Datun · 11/01/2017 23:00

The article is exploiting a very troubled individual.

His family fear for him as he has had a 'chaotic' life. His parents have split because the father is a drug addict. He is angry that he's been put through this (he wanted the NHS to freeze his eggs until he was 25, but they refused). He's unemployed but is intending to save enough money to send his child to private school.

Yet he is being celebrated with sensationalist headlines over being trans.

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 11/01/2017 23:33

Can someone remember where information was on fetal development in trans gender

Someone on another thread said that the embryo doesnt get the right hormones so the body stays 'male' but the brain develops as 'female'

I belive it was debunked on the threads but i cant remember the for and against arguments

If someone could link to the thread or pm me i would be grateful

venusinscorpio · 11/01/2017 23:41

Really interesting points, Beach. I speak French to a point but other gendered languages fluently. I hadn't given the issue of gender language any thought, but I imagine it's also problematic in the other languages I speak.

Original poster
slithytove · 12/01/2017 00:05

Thanks beach - the language aspect of it really does make it interesting.

So for grammars sake it is really best to stick with 'pregnant woman lives life the way she perceives a man would and does not identify as a woman, whatever that means anyway'.

A bit wordy and clunky, might lose something in the translation but I think it's nice and factual!

OP posts:
Original poster
slithytove · 12/01/2017 00:07

So if the brain develops as female, does that mean the brain thinks it is in a body with a vagina, and it's that contradiction which creates transpeople?

Because that is very very biological and while I'm sure that's the case for a minority of trans people, I imagine a great deal of it is 'gender' and sex-based stereotypes (otherwise known as gender!)

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Original poster
slithytove · 12/01/2017 00:10

It is a shame for the pregnant person that they couldn't have frozen their eggs either themselves or on the NHS, so they could have their chance at a biological child one day, maybe with a partner.

Seems as though that might be a good thing to include as part of the genital reassignment surgery package.

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Tartle · 12/01/2017 07:16

Seems as though that might be a good thing to include as part of the genital reassignment surgery package.

Is it included as part of other treatment that might affect fertility though e.g. Chemo? Seems unfair if not.

CharlieSierra · 12/01/2017 07:19

It is difficult for me to get my head round the idea that someone who feels they are a man and wishes to undergo gender reassignment also has such a compelling urge to bear their own child that they felt this was their only option, given that men don't bear children. It all sounds very fucked up and incredibly sad.

HelenDenver · 12/01/2017 07:21

Slithy, I'm sure this person could have frozen eggs privately, but presumably post any hormonal or surgical transition, it wouldn't be possible for the womb of this person to nourish a foetus.

HelenDenver · 12/01/2017 07:24

Friend of a friend had to make a call during chemo whether to get her eggs frozen or to combine them into zygotes - which had a better success rate - with a fairly recent partner before freezing (and risk that he would be gone by the time in question).

I think this was on the NHS, but may be restricted to life saving treatments.

HelenDenver · 12/01/2017 07:27

I do think it would've been better to have carried on using sex when we meant male/female instead of people trying to avoid the word and use gender...

qwerty232 · 12/01/2017 07:44

So if the brain develops as female, does that mean the brain thinks it is in a body with a vagina, and it's that contradiction which creates transpeople?

Because that is very very biological and while I'm sure that's the case for a minority of trans people, I imagine a great deal of it is 'gender' and sex-based stereotypes (otherwise known as gender!)

That's an interesting point. It all comes down to the question of whether biological 'sex' determines 'gender' or not. I've only ever known ever known one trans person - a housemate who was female when I moved in and male by the time I moved out. I only think of 'him' as a man now - because he looks and sounds like one - but if 'he' became pregnant then that would be incredibly odd and I don't know what I'd think then.

Can gender ever be completely divorced from sex? That is the key question. I am a man, and am stronger than many women. I'm sure if I walked about surrounded by a physically stronger 50% of the population who could penetrate my body and make me pregnant, then that would make me think differently about my self and them. As a man I will go to my grave not knowing what that is like.

But does someone's biological sex inevitably make them 'masculine' or 'feminine' - or having conventionally masculine of feminine traits? No, Imo.

So this guy is not a biological man, but his gender identity is open to question.

It all comes down to whether you think gender and biological sex can be separated.

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 12/01/2017 07:58

slithy

From what ive read on previous threads thats not how fetal brain development works

But i coukd be wrong which is why i want to check

Happy to believe in it as a theory which i Think it is, i dont believe that its medical fact

And it does mean that there are girl brains and boy brains which i thought had, again, not been 'proved'

user1484207100 · 12/01/2017 08:02

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RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 12/01/2017 08:04

Sorry user

Do you mean brain development or men being pregnant?

CoteDAzur · 12/01/2017 08:18

"stories about a man being pregnant and a unmarried girl being pregnant due to some hormonal changes while some blood transfer process"

You believed that women (and even men) got pregnant from blood transfusions?

I have a bridge you would be interested in buying. It's pretty. And cheap.

ageingrunner · 12/01/2017 08:25

Some people do seem to be quite ignorant about human biology/reproduction. I have seen people online wondering whether tw have periods or not, or asserting it's possible to carry a baby to term without a uterus 😳

CoteDAzur · 12/01/2017 08:34

Morons. Sorry to be blunt, but surely nobody with half a brain would believe transwomen (i.e. without female reproduction organs) can have periods or grow a baby in non-existent wombs.

Even preteen DD who knows nothing about sex knows that periods come from an internal organ that girls have, where babies can be made.

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