British 'man' becomes pregnant

[slithytove]

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/first-british-man-reveal-hes-9582789

Sorry, it's a mirror link

I don't usually post about this stuff, but it's really annoyed me this time.

Now 'men' can get pregnant? So 'men' will need maternity leave, 'men' will need maternity services, probably somehow different to women's.

Is it just me or does the fact they are calling this person a man instead of a transman, allow men (people born as men) to take even more from women under the trans rights umbrella?

Who would it hurt to call this pregnant person a transman?

I guess we should be grateful this person was born as a woman and is therefore socialised to not put themselves first.

And this is my other question.

Am I confusing man/male and woman/female?

Are they the same thing, or is woman-sex and female-gender?

Thanks M0stly. I think you're right, overall. Modern feminist analysis can be divided (albeit very crudely) between the envisioning of a genderless utopia where there are no men and women but only 'people' who 'identify' as whatever they like; and the more realistic aim of a more
humane culture in which men and women (with all their differences and sexually dimorphic characteristics) can interact on a more equal basis.

Womanhood and manhood aren't social constructions. They refer to the state of being adult male or female humans.

Changing the meaning of woman and man to be 'person who identifies as a woman or man' isn't feminist and it isn't helpful. It's insane.

I wonder how the paper got hold of this story?

Slithy I don't know. When we say 'man' we never just mean a penis and xy chromosomes. The word carries all sorts of identitarian connotations. Inevitably.

Agreed.

That is why transman and transwoman are such useful terms.

I also think it needs to evolve to transpeople having their own rights; not eroding woman's rights (and I suppose to a lesser extent, men's). E.g. The prisons.

I am trying to think if a transman would need different help when it comes to pregnancy and I don't think so.

You're being perfectly clear, slithy. It's a rum 'un, and no mistake 🙂 (Attention seeking bollocks, actually, but I have been will be deleted for saying that).

Gallavich maybe I should have used the terms masculine or feminine. Presumably they're not determined biologically?

So the social understanding is probably that man and male is the same thing - person born with penis and xy, and who probably subscribes to a set of stereotypical rules?

And it's those rules causing the problem to a big extent. Excluding body dysmorphia.

It's in the daily mail as well of course it is but I wasn't going to link that!

Funnily enough, couldn't find it on the BBC.

When we say "man" we never just mean a penis and xy chromosomes
Eh? That's exactly what I mean when I call someone a man, actually. It's quite simple in my world, apparently.

Is it overly simplistic to suggest that the terms man/male and woman/female are purely a biological reference, and that dismissing any idea of gender and the associated stereotypes would go a long way to helping this situation?

I can't help but think that if a female grew up genuinely knowing she could do/wear/love/live whatever and however she wanted, and vice versa for males, then it would remove many of the cases where people feel they are trans because they don't fit nicely in to the stereotype.

Again, I'm not referring to those with genuine body dysmorphia here.

Surely the corrective of gender construction is gender deconstruction?

Yes. Gender deconstruction does not involve reinforcing gender norms.

A woman can call herself Bob and take testosterone to boost her masculinity, wear a tie wear a cap, and do whatever the hell she wants. She's not a man.

A man can wear makeup, get a boob job and chop his cock off if he wants. Fine. It'll never make him a woman.

I agree to deconstruct gender people as individuals need to be free from the constraints put upon them on the basis of their sex. This is what feminists have been trying to say for eons.

The trans movement goes against all of this and tries to claim if you adhere rigidly to the gendered assumptions made about the opposite sex than you really are the opposite sex which is not true.

You are quite evolved molly!

You wouldn't assume that man means - short hair, doesn't wear dresses, likes football, wears flat shoes, no make up.(first stereotypes which came to mind, forgive me!)

But many, many people would think that.

0phelia you express yourself much more clearly than I have! That is EXACTLY what I mean

slithytove totally agree with your last post.

Aargh! Not that last post

Yes. The idea that a man can put on a dress and heels, make up, watch Bridget jones diary while drinking prosecco and painting his nails makes him a woman, offends me that that is the image of a woman! It's just a man who likes that stuff.

Even though I like all those things, there are women who would despise that.

Haha brilliant xp there!

Thanks though

Newspaper looking for a story. This is a woman and is someone who will always be a woman genetically.

Floggingmolly I meant man carries connotations of masculinity. Your point is, unless I'm mistaken, that maleness and masculinity are not the same thing. I agree. But I don't think they can be easily separated.

If being pregnant denotes the state of being biologically female (which of course it does) then it's hard to ensure it does not inform constructions of femininity (or female identity).

It's quite hard to say 'I'm exactly the same as a man in terms of my identity and the small fact that I give birth has of course has no influence on the formation of that identity'.

You're being perfectly clear, slithy. It's a rum 'un, and no mistake 🙂 (Attention seeking bollocks, actually, but I have been will be deleted for saying that)

Hear hear.

It's a load of bloody nonsense.

And there is no male equivalent either to relate it to.
Is there any biologically male behaviour females might wish to identify with?

But the press do have power in this country.

And it's being abused by spreading this incorrect message. I feel the more people who can see it debunked, the better.

Great comment above. Biological woman gets pregnant with a sperm donor. She lives and identifies as a man. Not the same headline at all.