British 'man' becomes pregnant

[slithytove]

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/first-british-man-reveal-hes-9582789

Sorry, it's a mirror link

I don't usually post about this stuff, but it's really annoyed me this time.

Now 'men' can get pregnant? So 'men' will need maternity leave, 'men' will need maternity services, probably somehow different to women's.

Is it just me or does the fact they are calling this person a man instead of a transman, allow men (people born as men) to take even more from women under the trans rights umbrella?

Who would it hurt to call this pregnant person a transman?

I guess we should be grateful this person was born as a woman and is therefore socialised to not put themselves first.

At most at eight weeks the embryo has not developed any external markers of sex however the sex of the cells is fixed at that point.

Has any of you met any transpeople in your life?????

My dad who is a trans woman had me and my brother with my mum. What is the big deal. Trans man decides to have baby that's his choice. Know matter what clothes he wears or hairstyle he has underneath all that is a woman who can babies. Why shouldn't he exercise that right.

To say now men can get pregnant is a stupid statement to make. As that's not biologically true is it.

HH, the thread started off as about the headline!

Beach's point, qwerty, was that IF genitals and/or chromosomes can be considered irrelevant in a trans person's identification, and not to do so is transphobic, THEN brain chemistry or structure differences are equally irrelevant.

Oh I see what she means. Sorry.

Yes, that's what is being discussed. That the reporting of this person's situation is unhelpful and sensationalist, by having the headline "first British man to be pregnant". It's not true, and takes advantage of the person being interviewed for click bait. The story is simply "trans man is pregnant", which is a lot less sensational.

Thanks helen and one

I was fairly sure it was bollocks

I think there is a scientific argument that the "template" for the human body is female (men have nipples because there's no evolutionary disadvantage, the internal clitoral structure and the external penile structure have similarities etc) but at no point is the zygote female if it was XY!

Oestrogen in the water is supposed to be "feminising" men (fat distribution patterns etc) but that is a lifelong effect, IIRC.

"brain changes in response to environmental influences."

Those changes are rather subtle in comparison to what we are discussing here. No environment will change a human brain into a rodent one, or a male brain into a female one.

FYI, what I mean by male brain here is one whose cells are XY.

But then no...because although genitals and brains are both biological, I presume a transperson would make a categorical distinction between the brain and other parts of the body in terms of the degree to which they determine their trans status. They would maintain that they have a female/male brain in a female/male anatomical structure. I assume.

Not saying I go along with that distinction necessarily - just conjecturing that that is how a transperson would put it.

Helen, you clearly know more about the science of this than anyone else on here. My understanding of neurophysiology is pretty basic.

To sum it up, to your knowledge is there evidence to support the existence of a gendered brain independent of environmental influence?

I just filled in a survey about academic freedom - you can guess what was on my mind as a limit to that!

And then on the last page was asked my gender, and whether it was the same gender I was 'assigned at birth'.

So I don't suppose my responses are going to make much difference!

Apparently this was on the TV yesterday, husband got a confused phonecall from his mother. Swiftly told her that this is just a female who 'is a man in her head' which provoked even more confusion about 'why the hell is this news then'.

"a transperson would make a categorical distinction between the brain and other parts of the body in terms of the degree to which they determine their trans status."

They... what?

"They would maintain that they have a female/male brain in a female/male anatomical structure"

That makes as much sense as you "maintaining" that you have a female stomach in a male body.

Have you heard of something called DNA? It is not possible for a male (XY) person to have a female (XX) organ. Even if you transplanted that XX brain into the XY body, that would mean alien DNA and the brain would be rejected, leading to death if not promptly removed.

In the case of the dimwits believing menstruation and pregnancy in transwomen, that surgery would arguably be an improvement.

"Those changes are rather subtle in comparison to what we are discussing here. No environment will change a human brain into a rodent one, or a male brain into a female one.

FYI, what I mean by male brain here is one whose cells are XY."

Yy to this, core.

Core = Cote

Stupid autocorrect

...that surgery would arguably be an improvement
. Amen to that.

"Helen, you clearly know more about the science of this than anyone else on here. "

Nope.

I was replying to Rufus regarding a question about a past article on this subject.

I have a science background and can speak in general terms about hypotheses and potential modes of action, but I have been very careful to post in this language of possibilities rather than definites.

There are regulars on this board active in biological science; not sure if any are posting right now as most of us namechange a fair bit.

"to your knowledge is there evidence to support the existence of a gendered brain independent of environmental influence?"

I would recommend reading Delusions of Gender for an overview of "brain sex" bullshittery,

Or, to be more polite and scientific, for an overview of the bias and environmental factors introduced, often unwittingly, into such experiments.

Thanks Helen. Will check it out.

Cote I did say 'Not saying I go along with that distinction necessarily - just conjecturing that that is how a transperson would put it'. Your response is therefore rather unfair.

I would counter the idea of a male and female psyche. Or one that is not the result of socialisation. I have no knowledge of any evidence that such thing exists.

If you have some, please feel free to bring it to my attention.

Oh god i am going to have to read up on this and i am sooooo lazy

Actually its ok

I just looked on bbc bitesize

All overys have the x chromosome

Sperm have x or y

Two x make a girl and one x and one y make a boy

And its the sperm that decide...sort of

Right its clearer now

So where has this facebook person got the "all embryos are female" from

"just conjecturing that that is how a transperson would put it"

Why exactly do you feel the need to clutter the thread with (probably false) arguments other people might use to back up their erroneous views?

"I would counter the idea of a male and female psyche"

You would be wise to do so. Not on this thread, though, since nobody has argued for such a thing on MN that I have ever seen.