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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

Do women use certain terms to 'shame' certain types of men?

639 replies

Enzouk · 14/10/2016 23:58

Just wondering about female perspectives on this. I increasingly hear women calling guys 'creepy' as a shaming tactic..generally I think that the women doing so do it only if they don't find the man attractive. Where as they will pander to a guy who is physically attractive to thrm they will hate on a guy who acts the exact same way who physically is not attractive to them. I have seen women do it in front of groups of friends in a sort of 'lets put this guy in his place' way. Thoughts? And what do you think of women who do this?

Also, i suppose on similar lines...are women more shallow than men with regards to physical attraction?

OP posts:
OliviaBensonOnAGoodDay · 15/10/2016 01:20

If someone told me I was behaving in a way that was creepy, I would stop behaving that way. I would think about what led to that behaviour and situation, and try to avoid it at all costs in the future.

You just feel aggrieved.

Patriarchy 101.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 15/10/2016 01:20

I have daughters of 17 and 20 who have the sort of looks that many men find attractive. They are constantly pestered by random men. My younger daughter in particular feels that she cannot even travel on our local train without some bloke (and it does tend to be blokes not young lads) trying to strike up a conversation and getting angry when she doesn't reciprocate.

My older daughter, who is more jaded and streetwise, is probably quite likely to "respond in a bitchy manner" to men trying to get her attention. Because it can be incessant and intrusive. And above all uninvited.

dovesong · 15/10/2016 01:21

Yes, we are misreading and missing all the points. It's the tiny lady brains, I expect. I spent too much time thinking about nail polish and how best to humiliate men to be able to understand OP's important and thoughtful words and the clever scientific surveys and articles he provided. Must try harder. He says we are allowed to not be attracted to every man! Very nice very generous thank you. I'll stop gratefully fellating every man that approaches me now that OP has enlightened us. Off to eat all the chips off the massive plate on my shoulder now. They're bloody delicious.

scallopsrgreat · 15/10/2016 01:21

Women can respond positively to any man they want to. We are allowed to. Not sure what's so hard to grasp. You aren't entitled to our attention. You aren't entitled to us being attracted you.

Original poster
Enzouk · 15/10/2016 01:23

Clunsyduck..i can actually undersand from what you just said about the dilemma.. The 'fear of seeming up for it'. What i have seen though is women (in groups usually) being completely demeaning/actually quite nasty to a guy who doesnt meet their looks criteria and that is what i think is wrong.

Yes i think we all judge more attractive people more positively sadly...both men and women do it. But i've honestly never seen any of my guy friends be downright nasty to women on nights out if they came up and chatted to us but weren't seen as attractive. .... Actually i take that back...i remember one guy i knew doing it...but he was a complete assh*le of a bloke and probably quite insecure himself. He knew that we didnt approve of it. I have seen women do it regularly though which i think is wrong.

OP posts:
venusinscorpio · 15/10/2016 01:23

Dovesong Grin

JenLindleyShitMom · 15/10/2016 01:23

Would it make you feel better if I said you could be bitchy to any women who approach you uninvited? (Suspect this won't be a problem OP encounters much though)

clumsyduck · 15/10/2016 01:26

Basically what mrsterry has said is what I was getting at with the " we can't win" explanation

That is literally what it's like !

I think I get your drift though op I could be way off but are you thinking the whole kind of dick head "lads" that still seem to end up "pulling" ??? And your wondering why the decent blokes you know who are probably nice guys don't get a chance ?? Well the reasons I said above really . Personal attraction and also the women's choice to find attractive whoever she pleases !! Also these dick head types tend not to show their true colours until further down the line ! I think the whole " women love a bad boy" is a myth !!!

scallopsrgreat · 15/10/2016 01:27

Yep men don't have to put up with unwanted attention from women either. If they feel threatened or just uneasy they are perfectly entitled to be rude. Or just annoyed they've been interrupted. Again.

Sadmummytrapped · 15/10/2016 01:28

I have never had this problem as to most men i am ivisible and to be honest its nice as i can just be me and no one gives a shit. But i have seen other women getting unwanted attention from people who just dont take the hint and it is creepy and awkward. I know you say that they just want to chat but ultimatly its usually the man wants more than that and just cant seem to understand that women dont ow that to him just because hes paid them attention.

Original poster
Enzouk · 15/10/2016 01:29

Ok..lets change the slant of this. Where/how do feminists feel is the ok place and way for an average man to try his luck with women... Say...assume you have a son... Imagine you want grandkids some day. You want him to date nice women, find a nice girl eventually....what is your advice to him.

And also there is a distinct lack of comments about that tinder link... I mean the guy was messaging girls with the most sexual/graphic messages that would get the average looking guy slapped/ridiculed etc etc...

OP posts:
TinklyLittleLaugh · 15/10/2016 01:29

But statistically

More men approach groups of women than vice versa
Women confident enough to go against social mores and approach men are likely to be good looking
Women pick up on rejection quicker and are less likely to persist

All reasons why public rejection happens to men more than women.

MrsTerryPratchett · 15/10/2016 01:30

It's almost like most of the time arsehole men make sure that other man aren't watching when they harass us. The only time I have been helped out by men against other men was when I got really fucking loud about the harassment. Then other men jumped in to see if I was alright. The rest of the times (many many times) it wasn't seen or was ignored.

Has it occurred to you that the 'bitchy' stance is a defense mechanism? And that it only develops after the 2 millionth incidence of harassment. Which for me started about 11 years old.

scallopsrgreat · 15/10/2016 01:31

Get to know the woman through a shared interest Enzo.

Original poster
Enzouk · 15/10/2016 01:32

Just to clarify again...because you all seem to be running away with this... I am not talking about one man not getting a hint after repeates rejections and hanging around like a bad smell. I am talking about a man being given a nasty reaction from the start..sometimes to the point of ridicule...one which wouldnt happen to a better looking guy. Ive seen it many times and surely some of you have too with your experiences of girls nights out etc.

My girlfriend has never been much of a party girl ...(since uni at least)... I have asked her about this and she says that she find attention flattering as long as the guy isnt overly pushy. But hey i dont know im sure shes been in groups of girls who have mocked an 'ugly' guy for trying his luck

OP posts:
scallopsrgreat · 15/10/2016 01:33

You know treat them as a human being rather than someone to be fucked.

JenLindleyShitMom · 15/10/2016 01:33

All that's coming from you OP is "but but but...."

Why are you so obsessed with "trying your luck" you have a partner! Why are you depending on approaching strange women in bars in order to meet a wife and have children? Don't you have a job? Hobbies? Go out during the day and have conversations?

Sadmummytrapped · 15/10/2016 01:34

Dont look for a long term partner in a club would probably be my advice.

OliviaBensonOnAGoodDay · 15/10/2016 01:34

I'll raise my sons to respect women and understand the complexities of a patriarchal society. I'll also do all I can to help them read social cues and be kind, thoughtful boys. It's not radical.

DP is a gorgeous feminist man. He managed to find me OK.

I don't think anyone has said that men shouldn't approach women on nights out. Just that when a woman isn't interested, a man should accept it and leave her alone, and not smoulder with silent rage that his God given right to sex has been denied. Also not radical.

MrsTerryPratchett · 15/10/2016 01:35

I'd rather men didn't 'try their luck'. Bleugh.

I met my DH in a bar. It's not difficult. Wait for cues. If you don't read cues properly then maybe don't meet a woman in a bar.

Original poster
Enzouk · 15/10/2016 01:35

Jenlindley...in case you havent noticrd im bot particularly bothered about your opinion given that ironically (considering the thread topic) your initial reaction is rudeness.

OP posts:
scallopsrgreat · 15/10/2016 01:35

Oh and take a hint.

Men don't actually have to pick up women they dont know in bars and clubs for the human race to continue.

OliviaBensonOnAGoodDay · 15/10/2016 01:36

I have never ever mocked a man for being ugly.

I have however mocked men for being unthinking misogynists.

clumsyduck · 15/10/2016 01:36

I think women just get a bit jaded with it op . I'm not being harsh on you because I do see what you mean I'd be lying if I said I hadn't seen it on nights out back when I was younger the point blank " fuck off" not necasserily spoken but insinuated when a guy who is not attractive approaches a group of women . But it's honestly no different to what men would do in the same situation !! But women are almost made to feel guilty for not fancying someone ! Why bother with conversation when it's clear what the guy is after and past experience tells you that a simple "no thanks have a good night " will not be enough because time after time has shown that for some men this isn't enough because they can't quite grasp that no means no !!

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 15/10/2016 01:36

Try his ^luck* with women

We are not a prize to be won so a change of attitude towards women is the best advice

what can be said about the tinder link nothing people meet up for sex those that are more attractive get more attention and have more responses to those they message