Ched Evans verdict

[FreshwaterSelkie]

to continue the discussion as the previous thread closed.

My partner has had sex with me countless times when I've been too drunk to remember fully or at all and it's only come to light the next day when I can't find my knickers or top and it turns out to be behind the kitchen door or similar. We used to laugh about it.

It's taken a couple of months of soul searching and support to begin to come to terms with the fact this and other things are indeed assault. Now I'm being told that in the eyes of the law it's actually all fine presumably because I'd had consensual sex with him in the kitchen before or went on to have sex with him a day or so later. I will never report him for sexual assault. The resulting case (more likely to be dropped) would break me.

It's an awful time to be a woman. I feel so depressed about this high profile case. It sets a dangerous precedent.

It's worth a punt

CE didn't have a shopping list of what she might have said to take a punt on.

He was arrested and taken to a Police Station and interviewed under caution. During which he told the Police that he had sex with the complainant - much has been made of this on threads here, that he implicated himself.

But basically as far as he is concerned he's giving a very frank interview - warts and all - about what happened. What he didn't do was rattle off a long list of possible things she might have say - to take a punt on, as you put it.

What he didn't do was rattle off a long list of possible things she might have say - to take a punt on, as you put it.

And then apparently, years later, he found other people who also claimed that she had said this common phrase during sex.

What's not completely clear is the relevance to this case, or the circumstances of their coming forward. This needs to be made clear because of the effect of this case on rape victims.

If Evans says - "I never spoke to her, but she spoke to me, said "fiery wild stallion fill my frozen womb with your burning love" and spoke of her preference for sex dressed as a clown"
Men come forward and say she said the same to them. Possibly admissible.

From behind and "fuck me harder" though? Hardly the amazing new evidence that should override his own guilty testimony, is it.

With one thread closed I hope this is the right thread to thank SecretBarrister for helping me understand the legal difference between innocent and not guilty.

Also, posts come so fast this is a bit out of sequence.

It seems to me, if a man gets a 'got a bird' message from a mate, surely this is something planned, CE's expecting it and members of the family there to film can't be an off the cuff moment seems to support that as does everything else that happens as another poster listed.

A man with a long time partner has booked a hotel room for his mate isn't a spur of the moment thing – when his mate 'does' the girl, he follows immediately – that's just gross – and goes home to his loving partner.

It all seems to me a pack of men on the prowl. Do we know what CE's mother thinks, his girl friend's mother? And then the male fraternity hold their hands up and say, ' what's the problem?'

I despair.

To break that down...

Evans says - I didn't speak to her at all

Police - what, she didn't expressly give her consent?

Evans - oh yeah, she said "fuck me harder" at one point

Considering he is the one saying he didn't speak to her, that sounds way too much like a wild stab in the dark to me.
But I'll admit I am biased.

'Fuck me harder' is such a clique rape defence as well. 'She's only bruised because she likes it rough' being the longer version of that little gem.

It is such a pathetic bit of evidence.

'cliche' sorry not clique!

It is such a pathetic bit of evidence

You'd have thought with all that money - they would have come up with something more convincing ? Maybe something from Bob the Builder would have been indeed ideal eh ?

Trouble is, truthful evidence is what it is - and you're stuck with it. Cant go dreaming up better. Not allowed.

The use of this phrase as evidence betrays women is so many ways. I have used this phrase numerous times. Happy to admit it on an anonymous internet forum. Highly unlikely to admit it in a conversation about this case in real life. So people can then say well thats a phrase that only a certain type of woman uses, and we know what happens to those women.

You seem absolutely convinced that this proven liar is telling the truth about the woman saying this, cad. Why is that?

Brokestein is still at it. His latest despicable comment is that rape convictions are low because too many women lie.

YY AyeAmarok. Why are you so convinced CE is telling the truth, cadno?

Can we just press the reset button and start 2016 again from the beginning?

Hmm 'truthful evidence' eh?

2 witnesses, with links to CE, whose 1st statements did not contain the similar fact details that were subsequently added to match details which were widely reported at the time of the 1st trial so in the public domain, who were both induced to provide evidence with offers of a £50k reward, with NM having been shown to have approached an entirely independent witness with the same inducement - all of this adds up to 'truthful evidence' does it?

I'm not a lawyer but I do investigate civil stuff before litigation so interview witnesses & review statements as well as research backgrounds. If I had a case where the facts of what happened were in dispute & 3/4 years later I was presented with 'witnesses' like those presented by CE's defence, I'd challenged their reliability & credibility strongly rip their 'evidence' to shreds. I've had better evidence chucked out for far less than the multitude of reasons that undermine those so-called witnesses.

CE has been able to buy himself a not guilty verdict by virtue of the £5M spent trawling through a victim's life to find the flimsiest of evidence on which to add enough 'reasonable doubt'. Only I strongly feeling it's unreasonable doubt here as the evidence of those 2 men is such a fucking outrageous stretch of constitutes 'truthful evidence' it's sickening.

I don't believe a fucking word of those 2 'witnesses' and I'm astounded that the jury believed either of them.

Were the jury told that a £50k reward had been offered? I would be feeling very uneasy right now if I were one of the jurors and I hadn't known about that.

If the first trial had never happened, and he had never been found guilty in the first place, this story wouldn't make me quite as angry. It just seems that the basis for quashing the original conviction was so flimsy. I posted on another thread that when it was first announced that Evans was being given a retrial, I expected that some fairly convincing evidence must have been newly uncovered. I was under the impression that winning an appeal was quite difficult.

Can't imagine I would ever say this but The Sun and The Daily Mail headlines have brought tears to my eyes. It's the only positive thing in the whole appalling case.

They did know that the offers were about. I don't think they knew (or if we will know) the extent to which individuals were contacted repeatedly and offered money for evidence. The hotel receptionist was, for example, contacted but ignored the offers. The prosecution said this amounted to bribery, the judge decided it was just a desperate girlfriend.

The witnesses were asked if they were doing it for the money but said they were not, had no reason to lie. But at least one witness said he was doing it because he "thought she was lying". I'm not sure what evidence of her lying there is, given that she has been consistent, and what they claim she did is consistent with her account as well.

Cadno appears to hang around the feminism board solely to post in support of rapists. Odd hobby but I suppose it keeps him off the streets.

I was talking about this case to a make friend of mine today. Perfectly reasonable bloke. Understood the wrongs of the case etc etc but at the end of the conversation still said that a lot of women make up rape. I'm very sad about this. I have two boys. Today, according to the law it is ok to have sex with a very drunk woman, not speak to her, not show her any curtesy, film it, call her a fat bird, etc etc. Young men will see this as OK. It frightens and saddens me. Equality - Sod off, I had more equality 30 years ago.

cad the reason why this is so fucking depressing is because allowing evidence like this means there doesn't even have to have been any collusion. Rapists commonly say 'she wanted it rough, she wanted me to fuck her hard' (convenient excuse for injuries) boyfriends often coerce girlfriends into saying things like 'fuck me harder'. No collusion required just a culture where men act like entitled shits and get reinforcement of their behaviour from each other and wider media

Admissing this as evidence is saying rape culture is OK. I am so so so angry about that and I couldn't give a shit whether you think this evidence is truthful or not that's not the point I'm trying to make

I've looked on the Daily Mail site. Initially the comments are depressing until you arrange them in the highest rated order.