General Trans thread part 2

[ChiefClerkDrumknott]

Following on from this one General Trans thread
Because I'm not Elsa and can't let it go

Even a quick read of this thread suggest there is a lot of anger. ..
Some examples...

You don't need examples. I told you that we are angry

This "debate" between radical feminism and the trans community is being seen by mainstream as a particularly nasty fight with some issues, risks and fears (on both sides) being deliberately exaggerated.

And who do you think started the fight? I think you'll find some rad fem fears stem from being threatened with death and rape when they bring up objections to some of these 'issues' you glibly dismiss. Do you not think that's an understandable reaction? By the way, have you popped over to Twitter or Tumblr yet to plead with 'TERF' killers to be less aggressive?

As mentioned earlier, I may be completely wrong. Perhaps the best solution is to get even angrier, even more offensive and aggressive...

You know what, as I said we are angry and we are 'aggressive', if you term defending women's rights vocally and loudly and consistently aggressive

According to statistics, trans men do a good job of being just as violent as born men.
I thought there was a fairly recent study that demonstrates transmen have similar patterns of offending to women and transwomen have a similar pattern to men?

If men insist that transwomen are real women then tell him you'll believe it the day he dates and sleeps with one - one with a penis - one with a beard and a penis.

If men insist that transwomen are real women then tell him you'll believe it the day he dates and sleeps with one - one with a penis - one with a beard and a penis.

I will believe it if he lets a transwoman penetrate him with "her" penis.

Many heterosexual men aren't so averse to situational homosexuality as long as they can stick their dick into someone, so we should raise the requirements a bit here.

My thoughts too Vestal

In fact there are probably a lot of blokes out there who would secretly like to be sodomised by a bloke in a dress. Male perviness knows no bounds.

Interesting points.

Can I throw this into the mix, I read it last night. I do find it very interesting that this couple is a woman who identifies as a lesbian and a trans man who identifies as queer, but is in a relationship with the lesbian. I don;t really mind how this couple identify or what they do, it is their business. But I am interested in the dynamics here simply from the identification point. Interesting some of the comments, not read that many, some support for the blogger and her views, maybe others, or at least one other who is unhappy with the idea of a trans man being in a queer relationship with a woman..... just a moment while my head explodes.

In case anyone thinks these comments are cruel, i am very supportive of anyone consensually being in a relationship with anyone else, am not homophobic at all but just want to flag this up for the purposes of identity.

that's the way I feel about it too Babylon and yet somehow I am supposed to 'welcome' these people into spaces I feel comfortable with otherwise I'm 'transphobic'

SquirrelStandoff re "I thought there was a fairly recent study that demonstrates transmen have similar patterns of offending to women and transwomen have a similar pattern to men?" Can i ask where you saw that, I am just curious.

This is interesting... a trans man talks about how he has changed physically and emotionally...

www.yahoo.com/beauty/i-used-to-be-a-lesbian-now-im-a-happily-married-120636499710.html

"Instead, Diane and I were both shocked at how quickly I changed on testosterone. Of course, there were physical changes: redistribution of fat, thickening of my vocal cords, development of musculature without working out, and hair growing absolutely everywhere (except on my head, where it began thinning and receding). Testosterone also thickens your skin (literally). It feels like being sheathed head to toe in an extra layer. It has dulled my senses, given me rougher, thicker skin, and what Diane likes to call “man hands.” My touch is no longer light and delicate; instead of brushing Diane’s hair out of her eyes, I’m more likely to accidentally smack her in the face.

And now for the most unexpected part: The dulling of my senses carried over to my emotions as well. For me this was mostly a relief. I’d always felt too sensitive, too emotionally battered by the world. Testosterone gave me emotional distance. But I’ve also begun to realize how being removed from my emotions has impacted my empathy negatively. It used to be that if we had an argument and Diane cried, I would invariably end up crying too. Now when Diane cries, I feel so removed from her emotional experience that I have literally caught myself wondering if she’s just trying to pull at my heartstrings to get me to agree with her. It’s a strange, illogical transition and one I have to combat.

Not all of my emotional landscape is flat. When I feel passionate, or worked up, or pumped full of adrenaline, it now comes out looking a lot like anger. It’s weird. I rarely have emotional peaks and valleys, but when I experience a peak of any kind, it always seems to come across as anger. When Diane and I have a disagreement, I might feel like I’m just reiterating my point, but Diane will ask me why I’m getting so angry. It’s always a surprise. I no longer know what I’m feeling or how to describe it, but I swear it’s not anger."

@Italiangreyhound: This is creepy. I think in her girlfriends's situation, I would have ended the relationship. It's one thing to have been socialised into accepting male violence as a given all your life, it is a completely different thing to suddenly get this shit from your girlfriend.

Something to laugh: glosswatch.com/2016/04/18/announcement/

(The author announces that she identifies as human being, and would like to treated as human being from now on. The humour is rather subtle, but genius)

Thought some of you may be interested in this public consultation.

It closes TODAY
www.transgendertrend.com/nhs-public-consultation-gender-identity-development-service/

SquirrelStandoff this Swedish study was linked in the link above. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/

I am referencing it because it says ...."Results" and talks about suicide attempts etc. Then finishes that section with "Comparisons with controls matched on reassigned sex yielded similar results. Female-to-males, but not male-to-females, had a higher risk for criminal convictions than their respective birth sex controls."

There may be all manner of reasons for this, and it is just one study but that is interesting.

Incase anyone is interested that link is under... "9. Please provide any comments that you may have about the potential impact on equality and health inequalities which might arise as a result of the proposed changes that we have described?"

In the consultation linked to by NormaStanleyFletcher (great name, by the way).

mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-15/a-ten-point-guide-to-not-offending-transgender-people/7326584

A friend linked this on FB this morning. My favourite bit is this quote:

"A cisgender woman has absolutely no right to speak on behalf of trans women because their experiences are completely different," he says. "The only thing they really have in common ... is that they both identity as female."

Really? You don't say.

rubybleu yes, I read that too and thought of this.....

"To those who claim Lee can’t represent women because she’s transgender, she points out that no one person can ever represent an entire gender – and that’s not the point of the role. “A diverse committee of women need to work together to create a movement and get more women involved,” she says. “And that’s what I want to do.”

www.theguardian.com/education/2016/feb/26/first-trans-student-to-run-for-womens-officer-stands-up-to-backlash

she points out that no one person can ever represent an entire gender

Well, yes, but one can do a decent job at representing an entire sex . Like, I might not get menstrual cramps as bad as some other women do, but I know roughly how it feels.

I,m raging. pretty liberal male friend has started posting "they just want to pee" memes. So I pointed him to a few threads on why women may find it uncomfortable. In response I get pictures of Laverne Cox with "Why do you find this scary", sent him a few in response (including stephonknee) but you know what.
Why the fuck should I have to justify my fears.I have spent my life being told:

Dont walk home alone at night
Dont get a taxi alone, plan your travel
Dont wear revealing clothes
Dont get drunk
Dont flirt too much you may be leading men on
Dont invite men to your home youre asking for it

and a multitude of others ways in which I am supposed to try and prevent male sexual violence .
and now because a few biological men, who like to present as their idea of a women, want to be validated and enter my safe spaces I,m supposed to forget all those warnings. I'm supposed to be tickety boo about being in a private space, where I just want to perform private bodily functions and be happy with the presence of a fully functioning penis and be just fine and dandy with that.

Fuck that for a game of soldiers

meddie maybe ask your friend why these trans women can't pee in the toilets they would used before they became women. Presumably fear of male violence. Soo what are liberal men going to do about it... oh yes, pressure women into making their 'safe spaces' open to anyone who needs a sage space!

Was this link posted on this forums or somewhere else? I didn't find it on this thread, so I'm going to re-post:

miriamafloat.wordpress.com/2016/02/06/restroom-risk-a-patriarchal-reversal/

Detransitioned male telling how it is. Might work on males who only listen to other males.

@meddie: Yeah, well, that's not new, they already did that during Elevatorgate. Like, a woman has to be careful to avoid rapists .. unless a dude wants to hit on her. Then she of course has to talk to him. Because it's just soooo rude to assume that he might be a rapist.

Assholes.

Yeah good point. I think tbh I,m just shocked that he's fell for it. He's usually pretty on board with womens issues on the whole.

vestal

Nice poster!

(Though I cringe when I think on what this would look like to a timetraveler from the past, or hopefully, the future. Like: "This shit is obvious, why would anyone write it down?")

"The real safety issue comes for transgender women being forced into men's facilities."
This quote is from a transgender man on the BBC website. Obviously natural born women don't have any say in anything

"A cisgender woman has absolutely no right to speak on behalf of trans women because their experiences are completely different," he says. "The only thing they really have in common ... is that they both identity as female."

Really? You don't say.

Well, this is it, isn't it?

If a transwoman is a woman and, it appears here, also now a female as well, then how exactly am I, a biological female, also a woman and a female?

I can't be. There is nothing notable in common between me and a transwoman; there are no markers of similarity. The only similarity between us is that we are both human beings and, well, men are human beings as well.

The terms "woman" and "female" have essentially become completely meaningless. What do they indicate? What do they describe? Nothing.

So in a strange way, transactivists are eating their own tails. They want to be identified as "women" and "females" but in doing so, they are making those terms redundant. They want to identify with a meaning that they are themselves are erasing through their own arguments.

hen of course they will come back with NAMALT.

If anyone ever comes back to you with this, just say "It doesn't need all men to be like that, it just needs a few."

If anyone ever comes back to you with this, just say "It doesn't need all men to be like that, it just needs a few."

And most men accept and are friends with "men who are like that".

Men who say "NAMALT" are part of the problem, not part of the solution.