General Trans thread part 2

[ChiefClerkDrumknott]

Following on from this one General Trans thread
Because I'm not Elsa and can't let it go

Even a quick read of this thread suggest there is a lot of anger. ..
Some examples...

You don't need examples. I told you that we are angry

This "debate" between radical feminism and the trans community is being seen by mainstream as a particularly nasty fight with some issues, risks and fears (on both sides) being deliberately exaggerated.

And who do you think started the fight? I think you'll find some rad fem fears stem from being threatened with death and rape when they bring up objections to some of these 'issues' you glibly dismiss. Do you not think that's an understandable reaction? By the way, have you popped over to Twitter or Tumblr yet to plead with 'TERF' killers to be less aggressive?

As mentioned earlier, I may be completely wrong. Perhaps the best solution is to get even angrier, even more offensive and aggressive...

You know what, as I said we are angry and we are 'aggressive', if you term defending women's rights vocally and loudly and consistently aggressive

ArcheryAnnie - do you know of anyone who has written about that? Being a butch lesbian pressurised into transitioning? I've never come across a story like that but I've heard a few people referring to being aware that it happens.

GArrashshhgh

Now I understand why people 'live tweet'. I have so many things I want to say about that video that I can't separate them into coherent thoughts now.

One thing that stuck out at the end. If this whole "assigned a birth" thing is a real thing like they say why the fuck aren't they campaigning to end all gender stereotyping before whatever magic age it is kids can announce their preference?

I'm reading the diary of a detransitioner now. It was linked to in the gender critical facebook group that was recced to Sixpence the other day.

It feels wrong to call them a detransitioner, like it's yet another stupid label to put on a human being.

Anyway, they're a woman with gender dysphoria who thought that it would be cured by being a trans man, and started taking T, then stopped and went back to considering themselves a woman.

It explains a lot about the whole way young people are interacting and viewing gender, and she's an incredibly good writer.

Is that www.mariacatt.com?

Yes, she manages to write in a very raw and personal way.

I think I've read some of her stuff before. I thought she just had an unhappy, troubled adolescence and has come to believe she transitioned due to mental health problems. Am I thinking of someone else entirely?

Fucking hell, the official Mermaids account on twitter has now defined cis people as "happy with gender" and "fancies opposite sex".

Lesbians don't exist. Gay men don't exist. Bi people don't exist. We're all seekritly trans!

And yet feminists are supposed to be the bigots in these people's minds. Fucking hell.

Mermaids is supposed to be the go-to bunch of experts on supporting trans kids. I wouldn't let them a thousand yards anywhere near any kid of mine.

archery have you got a link or a screenshot of that?

Doesn't that put them rather at odds with the transactivists who talk about the cotton ceiling? Or is being a lesbian okay if you have a lady penis?

I'm just waiting for the moment at which someone tells me that the reason I like football and maths and don't wear makeup is because I'm trans, then on telling them I just think gender is made up, accuses me of being a closeted transman with internalised transphobia.

Talkinginthedark yes, yes, yes. Absolutely yes.

Ugh, finally watched (the first half) of that mermaids video.

Of course a 3 year old can decide if they want orange or raspberry squash, or if they want to wear a dress or not, or have long hair or not, but none of these things mean anything other than their direct meaning - there's no hidden undercurrent of gender just because a little girl doesn't want to wear a dress or a boy does - it's all so frustrating, assigning these meanings to meaningless things!

Oh, plus of course, they're 3, perhaps they'll stay dead against dresses (I did, but I was a child of the 70s/80s so no-one cared), or perhaps they'll decide that tomorrow it's all about the tutu and welly boots (plus earflaps hat - no outfit is complete without earflaps).

I have seen a screenshot of the Mermaids tweet - can't copy and paste right now - and what it says is, 'Cis person happy with gender and fancies opposite sex. Trans not happy with gender'.

I am boggled that this homophobic crap is being spewed by a supposedly credible organisation. There are people on Mumsnet who have recommended Mermaids, aren't there? Do they just not realise this is their agenda?

Does mermaids have a religious background? Very strange how they've taken this route given how the trans movement has typically been allied with LGB groups. Has any trans person condemned this yet? Surely there must be plenty of trans people who are firmly against homophobia?

They haven't deleted it (yet), so here is a clipped screencap:

As a teen, I went through a phase of thinking I was FtM after discovering the concept online. Thank god I didn't come out and transition as I quite like being a wife and mother. I think I just wanted to be a man really badly because my experience of being female had been shit from about the age of ten or so.

I had been heavily groomed and mildly molested by a man in his 70s, several times men on the bus got inappropriate with me, ranging from saying sexual things to actually giving me my first kiss and grabbing my breasts (I was too worried about upsetting him/causing a scene to do anything, though I had already told him I was 14 and tried to let him down gently) oh, and as the class punch bag the bullying from my male classmates had taken a sinister turn when I got cornered in an empty classroom and two boys guarded the door while a third groped me and talked dirty.

I hadn't had a boyfriend, the only man in my life was my dad who was nice but emotionally distant and rather "old fashioned". I hated that as soon as I'd grown breasts and started my period my mother decided it wasn't okay for me to keep being so tomboyish and kept trying to make me care about fashion and telling me no man would have me for how I dressed, how I acted, how fat I was, how I wasn't interested in cooking.

It seemed apparent to me that being female was to be treated like shit by people and I became disgusted with my female attributes. I fantasised about running away, changing my name, getting rid of those lopsided tits I got teased for...

God, that is quite worrying Archery. I'm interested to see if the trans community protests this in any way. Aren't a huge number of trans people in or seeking same "gender" relationships?

Chihuaha
I think that's a very common experience. I hope you're happy now.

So sorry to hear how hard your life was as a girl Chihuahua. But very glad to hear you are now happier.

"Very strange how they've taken this route given how the trans movement has typically been allied with LGB groups."

Except this sort of homophobic attitude (internalized or externalized) is fairly rampant on discussions and in real life. So gender non-conforming lesbians who are gender-critical are often accused of being closeted transmen, or transmen without the courage to admit it. In particular, Sheila Jeffreys who wrote 'Gender Hurts', has had various homophobic slurs aimed at her:

gendertrender.wordpress.com/2014/06/12/sheila-jeffreys-looks-more-than-a-bit-like-a-man-shes-about-four-shots-of-testosterone-away-from-passing-as-one-when-men-review-gender-hurts/

The anti-LGB of (some) of the trans movement was made manifest recently, when a transwoman burned the rainbow flag:

www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/brooklyn-fink-ubc-pride-flag-1.3553719

Note the supposed justification was that it was somehow making it harder for them to 'pass' :

"But because these gender nonconformers are being so loud and proud ... now everybody looks and they can see oh, that tall woman with a deep voice, maybe she's a dude."

What is this? Someone who doesn't want to be lumped in with the non-normal, homosexuals and gender-non-conformists, but wants to hide amongst the straight, gender-conforming women.

The same theme is repeated many times -- being gender-non-conforming as a child (many of whom turn out to be gay) is seen as not as good as transitioning and then being a 'normal' straight person. And some gay people feel the same way, if you look at the accounts from detransitioners reviewed here:

purplesagefem.wordpress.com/2015/11/14/a-wonderful-zine-written-by-ten-ftm-detransitioners/

So I'm not at all surprised to see this associated with a supposedly 'respectable' trans organisation, because it is deeply embedded in the mind set of those who advocate transition (especially for gender non-conforming kids). The desperate drive towards heteropatriarchal normality.......................

Thanks someDyke - that's really interesting. It kind of ties in with the point that writer was making about Jaden Smith being the new face of Louis Vouitton women's wear despite not having indicated he is any way transgender (or hadn't at that time. I don't keep up what's going on in Jaden Smith's life). That some trans people thought it was harmful to them for a "cis" man to wear "women's" clothes. I'm off to read all the links.

Can't believe that tweet, ArcheryAnnie! I checked their Twitter and they backtracked somewhat after the homophobia was pointed out, adding that the "sexuality of trans people can be LGB same as anyone else". But what's interesting is that they didn't outright say "cis people can be LGB too", or "being gay doesn't mean that you're trans."

I don't trust them, Valanice. How many times can they say homophobic shit and then go "oops, we aren't homophobes, honest!" and be given a pass?

Could I be added to the FB group please?

Trans ideology is inherently homophobic and lesbophobic.

It underpins the whole thing.