Germaine Greer

[IamTheWhoreofBabylon]

i never post here but I'm watching Germaine Greer on newsnight
Crazy, the woman is not allowed to discuss feminist issues without being forced to discuss transgender issues
Disclaimer- I really like GG
Am I reading this correctly? Why does she have to fight for a different groups issues

Hedgehog I agree

And this no platform stuff - they asked her! I'm sure she would rather be doing the garden or walking the dog or whatever.

Madge, can you explain what you mean by sex doesn't exist? Because, y'know, science may disagree

Ok thanks for clarification
Interesting discussion
Am a scientist and I from a medical point of view there are clear differences, and that includes diseases that affect males and females. Eg. Prostate cancer, ovarian cancer. However I do take your point that gender is self identified.

I agree that this is derailing but since people asked

I think the current thinking is that there is no such thing as sex

Thus a woman can have prostate cancer. The fact that she has a prostate or Xy chromosomes or whatever doesn't say anything about her being a woman

It shouldn't change anything much, just that women's medicine now covers anything and everything experienced by anyone who identifies as a woman, so that will include things like erectile dysfunction, low sperm count, prostate problems etc

Anyway, no plat forming- it would be interesting to know if other speakers get this or just people who identify as feminists

I am out of the university loop so unsure

You're right Madge.

Chromosomes have nothing to do with gender, they define sex characteristics. However, gender is a series of societal expectations placed upon people with a particular set of DNA bound sex characteristics. People can say they are whatever they like, it doesn't make it so.

And yes Hedgehog, fuck this shit indeed.

is there such a thing as sex characteristics?

Everyone should be allowed to express their opinions within the law.

All women will have been on the receiving end of views and speech which is upsetting. Every single woman.

Being upset and feelings being hurt is not nice but it isn't the most important consideration when talking about issues particularly on an academic level.

Isn't it derailing to talk about trans people - no, but DUh-DoSing is!

Excuse me if I don't answer the questions you asked of me. Been there before with you under your previous guises. Provided a well sourced study. Roundly ignored.

I looked at your link and it just seems to identify universities who have banned speakers vs ones who hadn't

maybe there is a list somewhere, who knows

Thanks Madge! Apologies for the side track :) although, I feel that opinions on sex/gender/trans definitions are pretty ingrained in this, as it seems to be that it is women who hold defence-of-born-women views that are getting no platformed in order to appease vocal transwomen activists and allies?

Who are you talking to and what is Duh Dosing?

I am trying to get my head around the current orthodoxy and not get deleted - as far as I am aware what I posted is now the correct thinking around sex and gender

A cynical person might say it no longer matters what anyone actually believes and thinks as long as they publicly identify with the correct and approved thinking

is there such a thing as sex characteristics?

Insofar as how chromosomes define human bodies? Of course.

Anyway, I agree that this is a derail.

It seems unlikely that Dr Greer will speak. Which is a great shame for the students at Cardiff. I don't always agree with what she has to say, about a range of topics, but her work continues to be valuable, especially her work around society's views on older women, some of which have been bolstered and proved by the protest. "Sit down, granny" being a quote from one of the people who is being most vicious about her.

Anyone who identifies as a woman is a born woman

Apparently

Maybe when there are more public older trans women misogyny against older women will be a thing

How long til Paris lees is 60 lol

this young generation is deeply conservative when it comes to speech and expression. very little understanding of satire. Is satire allowed?

'"Sit down, granny" being a quote from one of the people who is being most vicious about her.'

I have no idea who that is but I wonder if they claim to be intersectional like so many of the feminists who think ageism is absolutely fine....

Doubtful Madge, I suspect anyone not toeing the party line will still be told that they are an "awful, transphobic, old cunt"

And violent men will still be the ones killing.

This just makes me want to cry.

I mean I've only read The Female Eunuch ages ago, and don't follow everything she says, but it looks like she is being forced to talk about trangender by a small minority within the lgbt community, as a massive diversion. It's not even her subject area!

No sane person can compare her opinions to a rapist! Or even Katy Hopkins or whoever. GG has massively helped the path of feminism, KH hasn't helped anyone but herself.

Having the opinion that:
"Transitioning doesn't make you a woman, it makes you a transwoman"

Does not equate to thinking:
"I am entitled to stick my dick in you, cause you insurmountable personal pain and humiliation because you are a woman"

How can anyone compare the two! I feel sick.

It's all turning into a massive attack on biologically born woman.

FFS.