Germaine Greer

[IamTheWhoreofBabylon]

i never post here but I'm watching Germaine Greer on newsnight
Crazy, the woman is not allowed to discuss feminist issues without being forced to discuss transgender issues
Disclaimer- I really like GG
Am I reading this correctly? Why does she have to fight for a different groups issues

I don't get why universities take this stance. All their students are adults, right? I get that there are laws against inflammatory hate speech, but saying you personally don't believe transwomen are women surely can't fall under this category? It's not exhorting people to go on a violent rampage or anything, although I can see how it might offend some people. But there are no laws against being offended AFAIK. And especially when it's not even said on university premises or as part of the intended speech/lecture/discussion.

It just seems like trying to punish women for holding a dissenting opinion. It's happened to Julie Bindel, Kate Smurthwaite, GG and probably many others who don't currently come to mind. I don't get why adults, who are supposed to be academics and capable of thinking, need protecting from them. One woman saying something doesn't mean you have to think like her or do anything she says.

I was at university from 05-07 and again in 09/10. I don't remember anything like this. Don't they teach critical thinking any more?

I cannot see how she can be compared to a rapist
Rape is a violent criminal offence and a rapist is a criminal

Ego do you think it would be correct for GG to not be allowed to speak about feminism as a University?

Look at Katie Hopkins. She has said a lot of inflammatory stuff. Not hate speech but an influential person who confirms people's opinions and reinforces negative attitudes.

And if she was due to speak at my uni, I'd be there with bells on. And I'd challenge her at every opportunity (or laugh loudly). I'd go to a lecture given by Dapper Laughs, too, with my 'come on then, mofo' face on. A 'safe space' is not one where you never hear anything you don't agree with, I think it's one where you can state your opinion without threat of or actual violent repercussions.

A rapist talking to kids is a different issue. He's a criminal, kids are not grown adults.

Hate preachers fall foul of actual hate speech laws. They exhort people to violence. GG is not a hate preacher, she has to my knowledge never said 'kill all the [insert adjective here] people'.

I don't agree with everything GG says either, but I'd go to a lecture she was giving.

The reaction to Greer speaking (and Julie Bindel, Kate Smurthwaite, etc) is so astonishingly disproportionate to the reaction when misogynist/racist/homophobic men are invited to speak. Yeah, there'll probably be some half-hearted petition, but there's none of the rabid 'this is an act of violence!!!!!!!' that there is when it's a woman.

Sorry, can't keep up and trying to do other things!

Have any men been no platformed?

Or do you just think it's an issue for women?

The only men I can think of off the top of my head are hate-preaching imams. Who say actual illegal stuff. There may be others, I don't know. I wouldn't no-platform Milo, either.

So I do think there's a difference between no-platforming hate preachers who actively promote and preach violence and no-platforming women who have at one time or other said something some people found hurtful.

I think talking about women who have been no-platformed in the FWR section is OK. I think feminists talking about women and not men who have been no-platformed is also OK. I also think it's both men and women who play a role in censorship but so what?

(Both my alma maters are orange on that link!)

I mean, god, I find almost everything Hameron says offensive, but he isn't no-platformed by a long shot.

Once you start down that road, it makes your opponents less likely to see your POV and you entrench your own views. It does not do your cause any good.

Absolutely, and it's at universities. Places that are supposed to teach critical thinking and debating skills. It feels like we're wrapping up the next generation of academics and/or graduates in cotton wool and not allowing them to flex their brains. I don't agree with everything GG says, and I don't have to, but she is certainly always thought-provoking. If you go away thinking about something she says that you found shocking or offensive, you can come up with why you found it so and then find your own arguments against her point. It's a learning opportunity. Not allowing undergrads to learn seems immensely counter-productive.

A spokesman for the university said they believed the event would go ahead as planned

Well that's good, I didn't like her position on transwomen (in the BBC interview) but she should be allowed to speak.

It would be interesting to know if there were any controversial speakers at the university who had not been no-platformed

and FYI people with controversial views about rape speak publicly all the time, sometimes they are Ken Clarke and are government ministers

Is this partly a mix up between trans - sexual and trans- gender language?
It looks like she was just referring to sex and that we cannot change our chromosomes. We can be xx, xy, xxy etc but that cannot be modified.
Obviously transgender isn't about that and it is about how people identify themselves. Clarity of the language would be a good start and may create less animosity.

Love it. A woman saying live how you want and I'll treat you with tact, but don't expect me to say you're a woman, is silenced and compared to a criminal.

Fuck this shit.

But I can see why some universities don't want to give a platform to some people who have upset other

*universities should absolutely give a platform to people with 'upsetting' views.
*the world is an upsetting place. I am upset all the time. At university you used to learn how to critically analyse an argument based on reason and evidence. Not any more it seems.

• GG has an absolute right to her opinion and should be allowed to shout it from the rooftops. She is not campaigning for prohibition or anything else. She was asked for her opinion and she gave it. *it's a shame for Cardiff students that they have missed an opportunity to discuss feminism with GG. I would love a chance to speak with her. I don't agree with some things she has said and I would like to ask her more about those subjects, ask if she has changed her opinion and if not, why not? *above all I really dislike this practice of inviting people to speak, then getting a petition together to 'ban' them and watch the vilification in the press. Meanwhile that person never gets to discuss the thing they were going to talk about.

Chromosomes have nothing to do with gender

Sex is not a thing which exists except for non human organisms although we do not know how they choose to identify

People can have manly vaginas and womanly penises

People are whatever they say they are, and it is how they identify rather than any mixture of hormones, organs, chromosomes or anything else physical

I think that is the current thinking