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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

sexualisation of children vs slut shaming

582 replies

bikeandrun · 17/07/2015 09:34

My DD is y6, having a great time with a fancy dress parades and final party. Being having lots of discussions with other mums and my mum about what the girls have been wearing. Finding my responses to this difficult
" cant believe mums let their daughters out of the house dressed like that" response to crop tops, mini skirts, lots of slap high heels etc

"girls don't understand the effect they have on men when they dress like that" this was aimed at a girl in dds year who has obviously gone through puberty and has a woman's body
Are just a few quotes I have heard
As a young single woman i used to enjoy dressing in an extreme and sexual way and felt empowered and confident.BUT

These girls are not sexual beings yet but is it slut shaming or just protective parenting to not want 11 year olds to dress like this.

I persuaded dd to wear converse rather than high heels mainly cos I know she wanted to jump around like a manic but I also really didn't like how she looked in those heels.
Help me find a feminist way through these feeling as I support my daughter as she grows into a woman

OP posts:
cailindana · 19/07/2015 18:10

What if your 12 year old daughter wanted to wear a crop top and hotpants Mama?

MamaMotherMummy · 19/07/2015 18:12

Lass

I think the onus is on both. If women don't want men to think sexually about them, they can minimize the risk (though not completely prevent) by covering up. As a woman I have that power.

Also, in my view men should work on controlling their thoughts. But since I don't rule the world, the only power I have over this is in any scope for my son, and to some degree, my husband.

LassUnparalleled · 19/07/2015 18:12

But it's not even about changing the way I dress, it's about choosing how I dress. It's not that I want to wear hotpants and a croptop but I can't because men might have lustful thoughts. I don't want to wear those clothes at all. I don't see the point

But you posted you did not want men looking at you and thinking they want to fuck you because you were dressed in a certain way? You can dress however you want but you have said throughout your posts your choices are at least partly driven because you want to control men's thoughts.

cailindana · 19/07/2015 18:14

How does a man work on controlling his thoughts? That is a genuine honest to goodness question because I'd love to know.

LassUnparalleled · 19/07/2015 18:15

And why does things like torso of the week exist if women aren't just as vision as men?

I've been told by heterosexual women that male gay porn is a turn on (The Brokeback Mountain effect)

MamaMotherMummy · 19/07/2015 18:15

cailindana she couldn't. Just as I was not allowed to when my friends were writhing around on the floor pretending to be Jennifer Lopez. I wouldn't allow a five year old to, or a boy, or any other age. I just don't think wearing basically underwear is appropriate in public.

laurierf · 19/07/2015 18:15

in my view men should work on controlling their thoughts. But since I don't rule the world, the only power I have over this is in any scope for my son

Interesting that the thread was started by an OP who enjoyed dressing in an "extreme and sexual" way partly because she was rebelling against her Catholic education…

cailindana · 19/07/2015 18:16

So your daughter doesn't have a choice then?

MamaMotherMummy · 19/07/2015 18:17

Mn control their thoughts as women do, by stopping a train of thought and diverting it elsewhere. I'm sure you've heard of men thinking of football scores to stop themselves coming early during sex. Or I've stopped myself feeling jealous by mentally reaffirming that I can also achieve.

JAPAB · 19/07/2015 18:20

^JAPAB the take-away for me from your little story is that the man should have learnt that sometimes people with attractive bodies are younger than he might imagine.

His actual takeaway seems to be that girls shouldn't dress like that and she'd someone "made" him have feelings that he didn't want. Basically with what happened, he blamed her for making him feel that way, rather than himself for not knowing (REALLY?????) that many underage girls have very developed bodies.^

A person can know in the abstract that underage girls can have developed bodies yet be 'fooled' if one is dressing in an 'adult' way. Or even if they are not it is still possible to mistake someone's age. I am not particularly interested in arguing about whether or not he should have had the thoughts at all, or whether he should have checked ID first rather than assuming his belief about her age to be correct.

cailindana · 19/07/2015 18:20

So are you going to teach your sons those techniques? I'm imagining that lesson!

MamaMotherMummy · 19/07/2015 18:21

What would it benefit my daughter to wear a crop top and hotpants? My daughter would have plenty of other, more important ways to express herself than what she looks like. What would she gain from dressing like that?

No, my daughter would not have the choice to do that. Just like she wouldn't have the choice to get piercings I don't approve of or go to places that I don't agree she could go. We could talk about it but ultimately as the parent it is my duty to help her live well to the best of my ability. That would include her dressing properly.

cailindana · 19/07/2015 18:21

"A person can know in the abstract that underage girls can have developed bodies yet be 'fooled' if one is dressing in an 'adult' way. Or even if they are not it is still possible to mistake someone's age. I am not particularly interested in arguing about whether or not he should have had the thoughts at all, or whether he should have checked ID first rather than assuming his belief about her age to be correct."

Again, I am asking the question JAPAB, so what if she wore a short skirt and he thought she had nice legs. Why is it even relevant?

cailindana · 19/07/2015 18:23

I don't think people wear a croptop and hotpants because it benefits them I think they do it because they want to. So she would do it because that's what she wants to wear. What if she feels she can still live well and wear hotpants? Are you suggesting that girls who wear hotpants live badly?

MamaMotherMummy · 19/07/2015 18:23

If they need it, I don't see why not, although my husband would probably do it tbh.

cailindana · 19/07/2015 18:24

Your husband will sit with you boys and teach them how to divert their thoughts away from sex?!! Really?! I am laughing just thinking about it!

LassUnparalleled · 19/07/2015 18:24

I'm imagining that lesson

I'm seeing the scene in The Singing Detective when Michael Gambon's burnt body is being greased up by Joanne Whalley-Kilmer? "Think of the unfunny bits in Punch - think of all of Punch^

cailindana · 19/07/2015 18:25

"Son, there is a lovely lady over there, now look at her, yes you're thinking about having sex aren't you? Well now count to ten, that's good, well done."

Absolute and utter bollocks.

Mide7 · 19/07/2015 18:26

I'm trying to word this without sounding like some sexual predator but if you have a type of person you find attractive then surely you find them attractive whether they are dressed in their best clothes or what they wear to do some DIY in?

JAPAB · 19/07/2015 18:26

"So in what way do men dress to control the lust of others JAPAB?"

There are some rules on male flesh exposure also. Doubt a male teacher would be allowed to teach while dressed like a Chippendale.

But you know the belief is that men are generally more visual than women and are more likely to be affected by female flesh than the other way around. You can argue the point as to whether this is true or not but it is a common belief and may be part of why in some places there are stricter rules for women than men.

MamaMotherMummy · 19/07/2015 18:26

Girls with hotpants might live badly but I have not met many girls who wear hotpants who live the lifestyle we live and think is right. If when she's an adult she wants to wear hotpants that is her call but when she is young it's my responsibility to give her the best I know out of life, which includes covering up.

cailindana · 19/07/2015 18:28

Yup Mide. Clothes make no difference.

MamaMotherMummy · 19/07/2015 18:28

sorry might NOT live badly.

marmaladeatkinz · 19/07/2015 18:28

I think the onus is on both. If women don't want men to think sexually about them, they can minimize the risk (though not completely prevent) by covering up. As a woman I have that power

this is bollocks

cailindana · 19/07/2015 18:29

What sort of lifestyle do girls in hotpants live?

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