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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

sexualisation of children vs slut shaming

582 replies

bikeandrun · 17/07/2015 09:34

My DD is y6, having a great time with a fancy dress parades and final party. Being having lots of discussions with other mums and my mum about what the girls have been wearing. Finding my responses to this difficult
" cant believe mums let their daughters out of the house dressed like that" response to crop tops, mini skirts, lots of slap high heels etc

"girls don't understand the effect they have on men when they dress like that" this was aimed at a girl in dds year who has obviously gone through puberty and has a woman's body
Are just a few quotes I have heard
As a young single woman i used to enjoy dressing in an extreme and sexual way and felt empowered and confident.BUT

These girls are not sexual beings yet but is it slut shaming or just protective parenting to not want 11 year olds to dress like this.

I persuaded dd to wear converse rather than high heels mainly cos I know she wanted to jump around like a manic but I also really didn't like how she looked in those heels.
Help me find a feminist way through these feeling as I support my daughter as she grows into a woman

OP posts:
LassUnparalleled · 19/07/2015 17:52

I'm still curious about your previous post JABAB about the 14 year old girl with nice legs - I can't understand what point you're making

Nope me neither.

cailindana · 19/07/2015 17:53

So if a regular guy approaches a girl who's wearing a short dress, what's the problem?

MamaMotherMummy · 19/07/2015 17:53

In the same way you try to teach your children not to be jealous, thoughtless, selfish, greedy, etc, you can teach them to control their lust as much as they can, too. I don't see what's so hard to get about that.

cailindana · 19/07/2015 17:55

Do you think it's possible to control a child's thoughts Mama?

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 19/07/2015 17:56

JAPAB the take-away for me from your little story is that the man should have learnt that sometimes people with attractive bodies are younger than he might imagine.

His actual takeaway seems to be that girls shouldn't dress like that and she'd someone "made" him have feelings that he didn't want. Basically with what happened, he blamed her for making him feel that way, rather than himself for not knowing (REALLY?????) that many underage girls have very developed bodies.

MamaMotherMummy · 19/07/2015 17:57

cailindana because a lot of men will be thinking about lifting up that dress and getting it on. Not me, thanks. Or my daughter.

I'd rather have a man approach me because he's wondering about my character or because he wants to get to know me. Not because he thinks he can make his vision a reality. It is not possible to stop lust but it is possible to divert attention elsewhere as much as you can.

Yes, some people find nuns and covered up people sexy, but they are in the minority compared with people who find skimpy clothes sexy.

LassUnparalleled · 19/07/2015 17:57

you can teach them to control their lust as much as they can, too. I don't see what's so hard to get about that.

I suppose partly because I don't see why the onus should be on women to assist by tempering how they dress.

And partly because I think the idea of (almost) uncontrollable lust is a load of convenient bollocks. .

marmaladeatkinz · 19/07/2015 17:58

again; there is precisely no correlation between sexual assualt/abuse/rape and skimpiness of clothes

if you are persistent in this line of thinking; then the logical end is that all women should wear burqasespeially pre-teen and teen girls to preent en fro thinking about them seually

JAPAB · 19/07/2015 17:58

"I honestly think choosing what you wear in order to restrict the thoughts of other people is weird, but if someone wants to do that, good luck to them."

Weird? It is par for the course in most societies to have standards of what is considered 'modest' dress, the purpose of which is in part surely to reduce 'inappropriate' toughts. The strictness of this may vary from country to country, but many have it in some form or another.

Why do you think say teachers generally have dress codes that do not permit too much flesh being exposed?

As for my previous post about the 14 year old I don't know if I can explain it any better than I already have. A poster indicated that she believes dress can influence men's thoughts of the underaged, this appeared to be disputed by some, and I gave a concurring RL example. No more, no less.

MamaMotherMummy · 19/07/2015 17:59

No, it is not possible to control a child's thoughts but every parent I know wants a child with a good character, which if it is sincere, begins in the thoughts.

cailindana · 19/07/2015 17:59

Wow you really think men are animals Mama. You must find them very scary.

cailindana · 19/07/2015 18:00

So in what way do men dress to control the lust of others JAPAB?

MamaMotherMummy · 19/07/2015 18:00

marmalade I hope that is not directed at me because I said if there was ANY correlation, it might be the OTHER WAY around.

marmaladeatkinz · 19/07/2015 18:01

It is not possible to stop lust but it is possible to divert attention elsewhere as much as you can

is that how you think people can prevent themselves from being assualted and raped??

MamaMotherMummy · 19/07/2015 18:01

Although that was a theory

cailindana · 19/07/2015 18:02

Mama you said you will teach a child to control his thoughts - I asked how you will do that but you don't seem to have an answer.

"As for my previous post about the 14 year old I don't know if I can explain it any better than I already have. A poster indicated that she believes dress can influence men's thoughts of the underaged, this appeared to be disputed by some, and I gave a concurring RL example. No more, no less."

So you're making absolutely no point at all then, other than a man saw legs and thought they were nice?

marmaladeatkinz · 19/07/2015 18:02

marmalade I hope that is not directed at me because I said if there was ANY correlation, it might be the OTHER WAY around

sorry mama i dont understand this post

LassUnparalleled · 19/07/2015 18:03

Oh and "Slut Walks" Big mistake in the name. They should be called

" I am not a Slut . I am a woman wearing clothes and your reaction to my clothes is your issue to deal with, but if I want to shag you , you'll be told by me Walks"

MamaMotherMummy · 19/07/2015 18:03

Lass I never said the onus should be on women. I said I would encourage my BOYS to control lustful thoughts.

I think lust for many is uncontrollable. Not in the sense that it would make you DO anything, but in the sense that many people let lustful thoughts run away with them.

I do not find men scary.

MamaMotherMummy · 19/07/2015 18:05

Marmalade What I mean is I said I know the reason for men attacking women has nothing to do with skimpy clothes.

cailindana · 19/07/2015 18:05

So you think men have uncontrollable thoughts that run away with them, and you have to change how you dress because of that, but you don't find them scary? You seem to worry a lot about what they think, which seems to suggest you are quite afraid of them.

MamaMotherMummy · 19/07/2015 18:08

But it's not even about changing the way I dress, it's about choosing how I dress. It's not that I want to wear hotpants and a croptop but I can't because men might have lustful thoughts. I don't want to wear those clothes at all. I don't see the point. Personally if I could choose anything to wear I'd want to wear a sari just because I think they're so pretty. But I'm not from that culture so I don't.

laurierf · 19/07/2015 18:08

Men have sexual thoughts which are activated by visual stimuli. Scientific fact

The visual stimuli that works for people is not all the same - it differs from person to person. Just like you don't find the male body attractive and I do. Visual stimuli doesn't work for you, it does for me. That's why someone saying "speaking as a man" also doesn't hold much sway. Unless we are thinking that men are all the same, whilst women differ greatly?! Hmm

If someone - male or female - likes your hair, your face, the way your baggy jeans and polo neck jumper sit on your body or want to fantasise about what's under your burka… there is nothing you can do to control their thoughts.

LassUnparalleled · 19/07/2015 18:08

I never said the onus should be on women. I said I would encourage my BOYS to control lustful thoughts

You are contradicting yourself. You said you cover up because you don't want men thinking about fucking you. Your implication is if there is a minimum of flesh on display men won't have these thoughts, or at least when they look at you. By extension if we all dressed like you no man would.

Mide7 · 19/07/2015 18:09

This thread has gone a bit weird. People should be able to wear what they want, it's not up to anyone to dictate how someone else should dress. Obviously things like work or school can be different but as long as the rules are fair and not favouring one sex , I don't see that as a problem.

Controlling kids thoughts? I'm not sure what uncontrolled lust is either.
And why does things like torso of the week exist if women aren't just as vision as men?