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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

DP wants to go on new DC's BC

525 replies

Jackieharris · 18/05/2015 14:03

He has just raised this out of the blue.

He isn't on our eldest DC's bc. That's never caused a problem. Now he's saying he wants that changed too.

I know this is 'normal practice' (hence posting on fwr not aibu/chat/parenting/relationships) but it's made me really anxious.

It came so out of the blue, I didn't have much of a response prepared. I said it hadn't caused any problems so why change. I said I didn't want to give up my exclusive rights. He said why and I gave the hypothetical scenario of him running off with a younger woman then being able to restrict where I live etc after a split.

He knew about my stance on this before we had dc1. He knows I had a very bad relationship experience before him (life threatening violence, stalking and breaking into new house after break up type stuff) so I just won't ever feel 100% safe with any man ever and need to have the security that I could escape if that happened again. From my PoV if he was on bc he could potentially use this power to continue to abuse me even if I left. (So many threads like that on relationships board and I know some irl examples too)

As long as he was never violent I'd always let him have fair access to dcs so I said to him why does he want it unless he doesn't trust me?

I'm now going to be constantly worried he'll bring it up again. Maybe he won't. I'll not mention it if he doesn't.

OP posts:
PrettyInPinkPan · 21/05/2015 00:32

No, really, dear Blistory - I don't mean to patronise at all seriously. And that's something I've never, ever been 'accused of' in RL, oddly. And I am surrounded every day with some inter-personally sharp dudes would would not hesitate to do so. Something to mull over, thanks.

PrettyInPinkPan · 21/05/2015 00:35

oh theoretical masturbation, interesting turn of phrase from you.
I hardly ever post here now and I'm being reminded why.
g'night.

LassUnparalleled · 21/05/2015 00:38

Blistory And what you have just said in your second sentence isn't patronising?

As for all opinions being welcome, well "liberal feminist " features quite often as an insult.

So far as support for the OP I don't think the posters who chose to turn this into "all women have to live with their oppressors" to try to justify her actions were particularly helpful to her.

Blistory · 21/05/2015 00:38

Eh ? It was a reference to a regular criticism aimed at FWR. Not anything aimed at you.

I suspect it just confirms that we don't "get" each other at all.

Blistory · 21/05/2015 00:41

I am a liberal feminist. Yes, the theory takes a bit of a pounding on here but that's very different from it being aimed at me.

And I wasn't aiming for niceness with Pan anymore than he was with me. From previous experiences/interchanges and even agreement on rare occasions, I suspect we're both robust enough to take it.

PrettyInPinkPan · 21/05/2015 00:52

This is true Blistory - we agree sometimes, and IF I thought for a moment anything I say was being pointlessly hurtful I would regret that and apologise.fwiw

without being patronising with it if at all possible....

SabrinnaOfDystopia · 21/05/2015 00:54

Blistory, I've always considered myself a liberal feminist too - I've always found your posts on MN exceptionally perceptive.

Theoretical masturbation does, imo, describe a lot of pan's forays into FWR perfectly. Sorry pan - I've actually stuck up for you in the past too.

SabrinnaOfDystopia · 21/05/2015 00:58

That sounded harsh - just that pan is like jekyll and Hyde sometimes when it comes to FWR - sometimes a great ally - sometimes infuriatingly quite the opposite.

Blistory · 21/05/2015 01:00

Appreciated Sabrina. Back at you.

I do however have to clear up to anyone reading that the comment I made and Pan had no connection in my mind. Intellectual wankery and theoretical masturbation have been regular criticisms thrown at FWR recently so I just assumed ( wrongly obviously) that the reference would be understood in that context.Especially as a similar point had been made a few posts earlier.

LassUnparalleled · 21/05/2015 01:32

just that pan is like jekyll and Hyde sometimes when it comes to FWR - sometimes a great ally - sometimes infuriatingly quite the opposite.

But that is equally just Pan disagreeing. I've found that too. I'm very welcome when I'm just repeating what everyone else says yet have been told why do I bother if I step out of line.
?

SabrinnaOfDystopia · 21/05/2015 01:39

No, Lass. I was referring to pan regularly making references to FWR as "myopic" and "exclusive" as he did upthread. ie. an attack on a whole MN forum because of the posters that post here. That's not just 'disagreeing' - and it's happened so many times I can't even count anymore.

Blistory · 21/05/2015 02:19

I really don't understand the references to stepping out of line.

If I identified myself as a vegetarian but then ate meat, I can see why other vegetarians would say that I couldn't call myself one. Vegetarian means something specific whilst still allowing different behaviours and practices. But it can't ever encompass the eating of meat.

So you could still be a supporter of animal rights but that isn't the same as calling yourself a vegetarian. It just can't be watered down and you wouldn't go on a vegetarian forum and tell the others that they were all wrong.

I guess I see the term feminism as something that HAS to be about the basic principle of women's liberation. If that belief isn't there, you might be a supporter of women's rights but you're not necessarily a feminist.

That's the only party line I see - that you have to fundamentally believe and seek to achieve the liberation of women. The how's and whys of getting there are all different and valid in their own way (possibly) but that basic premise absolutely has to be there.

It's really tough, as a woman and a feminist, to analyse your own prejudices and beliefs but the problem is that if you don't, someone else is going to point it out to you and that's never easy to hear and it can hurt.

I do think its important that people posting on FWR understand that threads are passionate and heated, not because we're all up for a bunfight or have a hive mind but because there is genuine concern and desire to bring about change. It's just so wearisome to constantly point out that FWR threads, by the very nature of where they are posted, will be woman centric and with a feminist perspective. What's the point otherwise ?

I suspect I'm talking into the night at myself but insomnia's a bugger and the TV is broken so forgive me.

RolodexOfHate · 21/05/2015 08:55

I think I'm going to definitely have to offer an apology here. To hear what I wrote described as bullying is very sobering. Even though I didn't intend it in that way, I can now see the way it could be construed as such. I wish the OP was still posting because I would like her to see this.

I really hope that my words didn't cause permanent damage and that her situation is resolved in the best way possible. I will be trying to be more supportive in the future, and won't let my well intended passion leak into hurting anybody in the future.

PrettyInPinkPan · 21/05/2015 08:56

You're absolved.

This patronising things comes up quite a lot doesn't it? Counting up,I'm due to 'see' about 25 people today, from family and friends to people who I work with. As an exercise I will check out my patronisingness with them. For all the work colleagues I am 'the boss', as it were, so the response may be tainted (but I doubt it) - and this will be balanced by teenage dd who can be searingly direct to me and her mother.
Sabrinna - I think those descriptions of narrow and myopic have been around for a very long time - along with other things which present obstacles to more people posting. I have no reason whatsoever to "attack" the FWR as a board - far from it. And when I do come on MN it's nothing to do with here, usually and sometimes exclusively about riding a Bike

PrettyInPinkPan · 21/05/2015 08:58

Rolodex - sorry re the X-post! The joking 'absolved' thing was to Blistory, nothing toward your apology whatsoever.

SabrinnaOfDystopia · 21/05/2015 09:44

Rolodex - that was kind of you to come back and apologise to the OP like that. Doesn't happen too often, unfortunately, and I think people people forget just how hurtful words on a screen can be.

pan, life really is too short to continue yet another FWR are meanies argument with you. Brew

PrettyInPinkPan · 21/05/2015 10:14

BikeBrewSabrinna
life too short/world too big for it n'est-ce pas.

PrettyInPinkPan · 21/05/2015 21:21

fwiw, and given the lull/end of convo., I did do the highly-scientificHmm questionnaire today re my being a patronising dude in RL...and it's a clean sheet. Group was mostly adult women, plus dd, and enquiry tagged on the end on a talk about something else entirely. No way of submitting it to peer review.....nor publishing...
so it remains an enigma.....but posting round here I'll be that bit more careful.

1Morewineplease · 22/05/2015 16:01

I have been in an abusive relationship myself before I met my DH but it never ever occurred to me to inform him that I didn't want his name on OUR children's birth certificates. Irrespective of whatever happens in a relationship the children have the right to have their father's name on their birth certificates.
OP I understand how insecure you must feel and that and that not having your partner's name on the certificate helps you to feel that you do have some control but I'm guessing that maybe your partner went along with your wishes earlier in the relationship to placate you maybe and that as your relationship is on a more secure footing now then perhaps he feels that he can bring the subject up , as in a way he feels that he has now earned your trust. I'm just a tad concerned that as you are so unwilling to go along with his request and still feel the need to be in control then might there still be some underlying issues that are still lurking that could be helped with some counselling maybe?
I wish you well as this could be a thorny issue .

1Morewineplease · 22/05/2015 20:19

Oh and what does FWR mean? I've looked at MN's acronym site and it's not there.. Need this to understand previous posts

almondcakes · 22/05/2015 20:21

Feminism and women's rights. It is the name of the part of MN that the thread is in, 1morewine.

almondcakes · 22/05/2015 20:23

Actually it isn't called that anymore, but I think it used to be, and the initials have stuck around after the section name has gone.

1Morewineplease · 22/05/2015 20:38

Thank you

1Morewineplease · 22/05/2015 21:33

Have just texted my daughter to give me a definition of feminism( it's her choice of study in year 2 sociology at uni) and it's basically the equality of social, political and economic mores between the sexes.... Think OP is hogging the social aspect... Really sorry as expressed before but OP has equal rights here ... Very difficult situation

1Morewineplease · 22/05/2015 21:34

Sorry I meant OP's partner has equal rights here

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