teenage girls under massive pressure to do anal :(

[GinAndSonic]

Article may upset some people. Saw this www.telegraph.co.uk/women/mother-tongue/11554595/Pornography-has-changed-the-landscape-of-adolescence-beyond-all-recognition.html in chat and thought it was something important to discuss, in particular this about teenages and anal Sex - "Moreover, both genders expected males to find pleasure in the act whereas females were mostly expected to “endure the negative aspects such as pain or a damaged reputation”."

Im not surprised by this sadly, as i was anally raped by my boyfriend as a teen over 10 years ago and pornification is only getting worse. What can we do, other thab talk to our kids? Can we do anything on a bigger scale to fix the problem, not just try to help our kids survive the shit storm?

Actually shrugging and giving up and saying "porn is never going to go away" seems to me to be a much more head in the sand attitude than critiquing it and recognising it for what it is and trying to change society's attitudes to women so that they don't find the sight of women being sexually tortured so exquisitely pleasurable that it brings them to orgasm.

I watched the video last night and found it interesting, but I keep going round in circles trying to form a view. I'll try to say why, I'm not trying to piss anyone off,

Thinking of interviews I seen with famous porn stars, it's often said how they love their job and how they love sex, but when I think more, how many people would say they hate their job or don't like doing the things they have to do as part of their job knowing their employer is watching, and if an employer did see an employee saying such things, they would lose work wouldn't they? I'm not sure what my point is, just that when interviews and quotes are given as evidence of porn stars enjoying themselves, I think could they say otherwise without their profile, work and income being affected?

I watched the vid and while I think it's good she is trying to change the industry, part if me thinks it's still profiting from the bodies of others, and I'm not sure if I feel better about that because it's a woman controlling it. It's something I need to look into more so if anyone has any useful places I can start I be thankful.

And then I think would It really change what people consume, if the ethical porn became easily available and in larger quantities, would it change what people watch, or would it end up existing alongside the grimmer stuff, with a whole different market consuming the ethical stuff? I'm not sure it will reduce the amount of grim stuff being consumed, so then the grim stuff will continue to be produced, and our children will still be accessing it, so it brings me back to better sex education.

I keep going in circles and confuse myself so if I'm not making sense I'll try explain again.

'Interesting TEDx. Does it throw a curve ball in the minds of anyone at the accusatory stance of 'making films and hiring people to work on them' that SGB had to duck from?'

No it doesn't, as the person who took that stance.

I have apologised to SGB for being wrong about her job, but I absolutely believe that being an employer and pornographer is totally different to being a person who is employed by those people, in ethical terms.

I think there is a lot of pressure on girls to have anal, and I suspect/fear that most of them, just because they want to be accepted, fur fear of being talked about will do Anal, when they don't really want to.

However, let's not get this out of proportion. I mean let's not zone in on anal specifically here, think this is a general problem.

this is a common problem because I think that a lot of girls get to do all sorts of things from snogging before they're ready, to to being touched on their chest, to being touched down below, to giving a blow job. All of these things they do, when they don't really want to I suspect the pressure to do all sorts of things is worse now than it ever was before.

"I have apologised to SGB for being wrong about her job"
Not sure why you had to apologise- she says herself she works in the porn industry and not as an "actor". So very little difference between her role and that of a producer, surely? If you're not one of the exploited you're one of the exploiters.

Hakluyt: I am, and always have been, predominantly a writer. I worked mostly on porn magazines in the 1990s and early 00s. Writers in porn (not unlike writers in Hollywood) have little power/control over things like hiring and paying of models.

As to ways of changing porn for the better: unionization for performers would help. Performers need and deserve fair contracts, fair rates of pay and freedom from coercion,etc. And ethical porn is not a 'niche' market purely because people don't want to look at it and would rather look at exploitative gonzo stuff, it's a small market at present because the people producing it are a small number of people without much commercial power, who may struggle to get distribution/ promotion and are disproportionately hassled by the authorities. So it's hard to hear of and often harder to get.

Excellent suggestions, SGB. As I said before- I would love to be part of the change. Willing to start 9.00 tomorrow. Where shall I start?

..

Chaise i agree, girls are doing alsorts of stuff before they really want to, the article about the injuries caused by anal is just particularly shocking reading.
I dont really have much to say right now. I agree with everyone talking about thorough sex ed starting early, teaching children about bodily autonomy etc
Will watch the TED talk tonight.

I do find that those people who believe porn will go away are not looking at the whole picture. Dines has been battling since writing her thesis on Playboy Magazine cartoons many years ago. Has she made any real difference to the amount or type of porn produced? If we want to change things we will need to reshape the industry. But look at the language used here in this fred just how much change is going to be made while different ends of feminism are pulling against each other. Suggesting that we all pull in the same direction against porn will just leave us in the position we are currently in. Given that Dines lost to Span in the University debate any changes in values will need to come from inside the porn industry.

"If we want to change things we will need to reshape the industry."

How?

This is the first generation who has had this issue of being exposed to online pornography from a very young age, and we are starting to see the problems that are a consequence of that. Those people are soon going to be adults and we have yet to see how they are going to view that situation as adults and what they are going to want to do about it or how they are going to view the older generation who created that situation.

We are never going to all agree. There has never been any major issue on which everyone has agreed, but I think it is far too early to say that a particular approach should be abandoned because it hasn't worked so far. Change can take a long time, and porn is not the only problem in the world that is getting worse.

"We are never going to all agree"

Interestingly everyone on this thread actually seems to. Except the porn apologists. Which is only to be expected.

Nobody should feel forced to perform any sex act they don't want to. I think that should be the message rather than this is OK but this isn't. It is a personal thing between two consenting people.

I think it's a bit more complicated than that..............

It isn't a personal thing between 2 consenting people.

Girls are being coerced into it.

Coercion isn't consent.

"I do find that those people who believe porn will go away are not looking at the whole picture."

Who are those people who believe porn will go away? I don't recall anyone on this thread saying they believe porn will go away. I'm puzzled by why you think people who don't believe that wanking away to films with women being sexually tortured is OK, think those films will just go away because we don't agree that they're an OK thing. Where has anyone expressed that belief?

Some girls are being coerced into it, some girls will feel pressured to try it, others will do it willingly.
Some girls are perfectly capable of saying no when they don't want to do something and saying yes when they really do.
I'm not saying there is no problem, but I do hate this notion that girls are all helpless victims in their sex lives.

I first had anal sex as a teenager in the 80s, under no pressure from my boyfriend, having never seen porn - I did it because I had a very high sex drive, had a lovely boyfriend and wanted to try different things. Most importantly, I knew what I wanted.

Obviously nothing is going to be fixed overnight. We have thousands of years of patriarchy and misogyny to overcome and we are still not free of their influence. Getting rid of the madonna/whore divide and its modern equivalent of victim/lying industry shill would help.
There has, after all, been a lot of progress in the area of women's rights over the last 100 years, at least within Europe. There's still a long way to go, but at least we are not officially and legally the property of men any more. We can earn our own money, vote, drive and (at present) have access to contraception and abortion. Even though the odds on conviction are still lousy we can call the police when we are sexually assaulted and, legally, be treated as the victim of a crime rather than collateral damage in a crime committed against our male owner.

As to what we can do, now, about the problems surrounding porn? We can seek out and/or encourage others to seek out the stuff that is ethically produced. We can give our own kids sound, sensible education about sexual behaviour along with the standard stuff about the mechanics, contraception and disease - teach them that sex, first and foremost, is supposed to be pleasurable and that means that everyone involved in a sexual encounter should be enjoying it and enthusiastically participating - if someone isn't enjoying it then it needs to stop immediately. We can remind them that not everyone is particularly interested in sex in the first place, and that your level of interest in sex is not, in itself, some confirmation of your moral righteousness.

And we can get our heads round the idea that, just as sex is predominantly a recreational activity that everyone is entitled to engage in or avoid, porn is a type of entertainment in which performers should be treated fairly and not coerced into working, decieved, bullied or exploited.

Well I guess that I am fortunate that DD was not coerced when she was a young teenager, I should be grateful that my boys have been taught, and understand, that porn is a fantasy same as another other film (without going into the rights and wrongs of the film) and does not enable loving relationships. I guess I should be really glad that my boys know that they can be completely open with us.

Fact is porn is going to go away and obviously I can't be everyone's mother so changing porn seems the much better option than doing nothing. The likes of Dines and Long have done absolutely nothing in terms of changing or improving things so other alternatives seem a more realistic option but people will want to decry the industry and use stigmatising and dehumanising language rather finding actual ways of changing things so guess we better get use to the patriarchal driven porn industry.

"Well I guess that I am fortunate that DD was not coerced when she was a young teenager, I should be grateful that my boys have been taught, and understand, that porn is a fantasy same as another other film (without going into the rights and wrongs of the film) and does not enable loving relationships. I guess I should be really glad that my boys know that they can be completely open with us."

Not sure what you mean by this? I detect irony/sarcasm/something but don't know quite what you're getting at........

You don't have to have personally watched something for it to affect the culture around you, Unsolved.

Agree you had anal sex freely with your teenage boyfriend. Great, fabulous. If you were a teenager now would the boys you dated be more or less likely to have seen anal sex in porn than back then?

"I'm not saying there is no problem, but I do hate this notion that girls are all helpless victims in their sex lives."

I hate thwt notion too- good thing nobody 's saying thwt, isn't it?

As an aside, Unresolved, how did you know that anal sex was a thing people did?

Reading this thread with interest. I do think a balance needs to be struck though. Telling a teenage girl that any form of sex is "not normal" could be dangerous as well. If she happens to enjoy or be interested in it, it could make her feel like what she wants is "not normal". That's a huge hit on your self-esteem.

I come from quite a traditional family background and was made to feel like being interested in sex was "not normal" for girls. Women were meant to reluctantly tolerate it - i.e. the whole "I have a headache" portrayal of females in the old media. I grew up feeling a bit like a freak (or a slut) for being interested in it. "Overly tactile" was a phrase my mum used many a time...

I have a little girl, and I think I'd probably stress that any act between partners not only has to be consensual, but desired by both adults. That applies to anything - oral, anal, licking each other's eyeballs, whatever you're into. There are no "abnormal" desires, but they have to make sure both parties want it, rather than just going along with it to please the other person. "Consensual" just seems too obliging for me. You can be pressured into "consent".