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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

When I talk about DV against women to some men.....

208 replies

Fireirons · 26/03/2015 22:11

They immediately turn the conversation around to women being violent towards men. Yep. Women are also violent. I agree.

Yes there is no way violence is acceptable either way

But I cannot even begin to articulate my arguments about how women are often helpless, abused to an extent to being too terrified to leave, have no financial independence, no where to go, threatened, raped etc

I was shaking with anger the other day by a guy who just shouted me down...........that proved my point to a way. He asked for stats and then didn't believe them and tried for 45 minutes to Google stats for male DV.

Are there rescue centres for victims of male domestic violence seeking sanctuary?

I have nc for this.

Yep I have experienced DV.

OP posts:
HelenaDove · 28/03/2015 18:16

Ah i understand. But the thing is lego we are living in a world where women have to justify how they look much much much more than men have to justify predatory behaviour!

I got sucked into that thread (i shouldnt have looked tbh) but the fact that that thread or ANY weight/looks thread moves much faster and gains more posts than a thread like this emphasizes my point.

ihatelego · 28/03/2015 19:47

..yes there is pressure on men and women to conform to societal ideals, but i don't see men posting shaming other womens bodies because of their personal weight problems, that op was making offensive comments about other people's bodytypes.. not sure on the link between weight and predatory behaviour.. i have to say i think you're clutching at straws Hmm

ihatelego · 28/03/2015 19:48

that should be men posting shaming other mens bodies because of the way it makes them feel. if you see what i mean

AnyFucker · 28/03/2015 23:13

How did this thread turn into the ihatelego thread ? Confused

PuffinsAreFictitious · 28/03/2015 23:17

Because AF, like the well socialised women we are, we try to convince and cajole people who choose to decide that women like us are bad.

ihatelego · 28/03/2015 23:21

haha i don't know i put forward the notion that the majority of men aren't abusive potential rapists and had a successive stream of pp jump on me and come to some strange conclusions Hmm sorry!

PuffinsAreFictitious · 28/03/2015 23:31

I don't think that, based on your responses the conclusions were strange at all. Although, there's the possibility that you don't express yourself well, lego.

ihatelego · 28/03/2015 23:36

I can promise you that some of the conclusions pp were coming up with about my views on women, based on some of my thoughts in an online forum, could not be further from the truth, but then again obviously this is no more than an online forum we really have no idea who we're speaking to.

It's not pretty tbh.

SabrinnaOfDystopia · 28/03/2015 23:37

That point is irrelevant to the thread though Ihatelego. Nobody has said that the vast majority of men are abusive - the thread was about a denial that dv is gendered, people saying 'women do it too' as a derailment to a conversation about dv.

The fact is the vast majority (80-90%) of perpetrators are men, and the vast majority of victims are women.

lazocuter · 28/03/2015 23:52

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lazocuter · 28/03/2015 23:53

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PuffinsAreFictitious · 28/03/2015 23:55

What is this thread all about? Any feminist will tell you only men can be violent and only women can be victims

Wrong

And any man who is a victim of DV just needs to "man up"! Am I right fellow feminist? girl power! men are stupid pigs!!

Wrong

Facts are fun. We like facts. You don't.

ihatelego · 28/03/2015 23:59

my initial post was *i've previously been able to pull up facts for male victims of dv in a few seconds. It's a serious problem and they can be just as affected by female victims.

Surely the best way to progress as both feminists and taking a stand against dv is to treat it with equal measure and recognition and respect all victims the same. *

From here pp have objected to that and asked questions, we've discussed it, agree to disagree as far as I'm concerned.

ihatelego · 29/03/2015 00:00

puffin you obviously havn't read my posts, please rtft.

PuffinsAreFictitious · 29/03/2015 00:01

I have RTFT thanks.

Did you?

Gralick · 29/03/2015 00:03

As a complete aside to this thread, I was just musing on how Dittany & co used to answer naive questions with a curt "read this link". They said it was because they were fed up with disingenuous goady fuckers finding it funny to waste The Feminists' time by putting up endless weak arguments and pointless questions. I'm more willing to give people explanations, but there's a fine line to be drawn somewhere.

Back on topic, thank you lego for so amply demonstrating the very issue of whataboutery raised in Fireirons's OP. Might I suggest you go and join a support group for abused men? Then you won't have to worry about all these annoying facts & figures, you'll be able to proceed with minimal cognitive dissonance :)

HelenaDove · 29/03/2015 00:03

but i don't see men posting shaming other womens bodies because of their personal weight problems

Not on here no but its rife on the MRA websites One of them even ran a "fat shaming week" on twitter about 18 months ago. The charity beat were about as impressed with that as i was.

HelenaDove · 29/03/2015 00:05

Actually scrub my first sentence on that post. Ive seen it happen on Dadsnet!

YonicScrewdriver · 29/03/2015 00:05

Ihatelego is engaging politely, as far as I can say.

Lazo is spelunking all over as many FWR threads as he can drag his lazo bones across.

YonicScrewdriver · 29/03/2015 00:05

And, if I'm not very much mistaken, is a PBP.

ihatelego · 29/03/2015 00:07

[sigh] i am obviously imagined myself typing numerous times my experience and understanding of facts, figures and the problems faced by women in a world where gender discrimination is rife.

If anyone ever wonders why so many young men and women struggle to identify with feminism they should read this thread - it's a perfect example.

I'm not looking for an argument, my thoughts are posted throughout the thread, if it makes some of you feel better to condemn me as some sort of ignorant, man pandering idiot then so be it, knock yourselves out.

Gralick · 29/03/2015 00:12

But WHY are you so keen to tell us all what's wrong with feminism??? Or how we're doing it all wrong, or whatever your actual point about it is.

How SHOULD we do it?

PuffinsAreFictitious · 29/03/2015 00:12

Not sure anyone did that though. No one has said you're ignorant, except you. You gave your facts, and they were debunked. You don't believe the debunking, as you refer back to your facts, but that's fine, not everyone is comfortable with their ideas being challenged.

However, what your posts have done is amply demonstrated that the OP was pretty accurate.

If you didn't mean to do that, then maybe it's just the way you're expressing yourself? I don't know, I'm trying to put a positive spin on your posts, but you seem to have returned to your original view that feminist are bad, which is a shame.

SabrinnaOfDystopia · 29/03/2015 00:13

ihatelego Sat 28-Mar-15 23:21:33
haha i don't know i put forward the notion that the majority of men aren't abusive potential rapists and had a successive stream of pp jump on me and come to some strange conclusions hmm sorry!

But nobody has actually said that the majority of men are abusive potential rapists. Posters are saying that the majority of domestic violence is committed by men, and that said dv committed by men is more likely to be serious/life-threatening than dv committed by women. You see the difference?

ihatelego · 29/03/2015 00:20

Then you won't have to worry about all these annoying facts & figures, you'll be able to proceed with minimal cognitive dissonance

Facts are fun. We like facts. You don't.