When I talk about DV against women to some men.....

[Fireirons]

They immediately turn the conversation around to women being violent towards men. Yep. Women are also violent. I agree.

Yes there is no way violence is acceptable either way

But I cannot even begin to articulate my arguments about how women are often helpless, abused to an extent to being too terrified to leave, have no financial independence, no where to go, threatened, raped etc

I was shaking with anger the other day by a guy who just shouted me down...........that proved my point to a way. He asked for stats and then didn't believe them and tried for 45 minutes to Google stats for male DV.

Are there rescue centres for victims of male domestic violence seeking sanctuary?

I have nc for this.

Yep I have experienced DV.

And do you think female on male violence is taken less seriously because of societal perceptions of masculinity and femininity?

Do you think feminism is trying to fight such gender perception? Because I do.

Who is discriminating against male victims of dv and how?

I see a society dominated by a very small number of wealthy, educated, white males ... I'd have thought that was more to do with capitalism

What's your explanation for the preponderance of white males at the tops of the capitalist trees if not white, male privilege?

Very many feminists would say that capitalism's an inherently patriarchal system - I disagree, but that's a different conversation. In its currently widespread form, capitalism favours the male, the light-skinned, the rich and the able. The more of those qualities possessed by an individual, the more 'powers' that individual enjoys in our analogous game.

Whether rich, black women are more privileged than poor, white men, and so on are questions of intersectionality which is an important part of feminism. All other factors being more or less equal, though, you will find that women are at the bottom of each 'layer' however you choose to define your layers. Hence feminism. Of course, you can say the same about disability. Hence disabled activism. And about dark skin, hence racial activism.

Aaand, yet again, I've been led off the main topic by whataboutery.

The video has been dissected frame by frame and been found to have been edited in order for it to look like people were laughing and pointing when the man was physically assaulted. This is patently not the case. The people around them are different, the light is different, there are a host of other continuity inconsistencies as well. It's faked to make it look like people help women being hurt, but laugh at men in the same situation.

In reality, most people walk by when someone is being assaulted for fear of the violence being turned on them.

Just to reiterate, the film is edited to show something that never happened.

When I was in a shelter, due to my ExH trying to kill me just that once too many times, the last thing I could have coped with was a man being there. No one is stopping men building shelters. If, as you seem to, you agree that power is mostly held in male hands, you must admit that, if men wanted shelters, they would have built them by now. And please don't say that powerful people don't experience DV, because it's a crock.

I have limited time and energy. I choose to spend that time and energy promoting women's liberation from patriarchy. If men also benefit from an end to gender inequality, well fabulous, but it isn't the main focus of my activism. In the same way as I raise money for the National Autistic Society, but it doesn't mean that I don't care about bowel cancer, it just means that the NAS is the focus of my fund raising.

Why is it only feminists who are expected to stop focussing on their goals? Why are we accused of hating men? The men in our lives, who we love and respect are often a bit perplexed by that kind of statement! Why are we allowed to discuss women as a group, but as soon as we discuss men as a group, we're being mean to men?

Who is discriminating against male victims of dv and how?

I'm particularly interested in the 'how'

I don't agree that the already pitiful support for female victims should be slashed further to help men

No, why should it? And going back to the pie chart, why aren't we looking more intently at the massive divergence between male perpetrators and female? Are we supposed to say it's OK that men commit 87% of the murders, now let's argue about who gets more help with not being murdered by their partner? It's not OK.

getting a bit overwhelmed with things to respond to but in response to your post buffy:

No i don't think they're equivalent, first i'd ask are we talking about localised to the western world or worldwide. On both levels I understand women are discriminated against more so than men, and on a worldwide level women are subected to horrific gender inequality. I agree with that whole first paragraph.

Second paragraph - I think you've misunderstood me entirely! My issue with feminism is the way that certain attitudes and confusion about it's purpose means i, as well as others find it hard to identify with. If it is a movement which believes men and women should be equal and they campaign for women's rights? fantastic totally get that.

But when I see feminism (on boards here, news, elsewhere forums, and famous comedians/feminists) i often see hatred and sweeping generalisations towards men, which suggest that all or most men are this way (which i disagree with). I also find it difficult when a movement which wants to eradicate discrimination will then discriminate against someone due to their gender (for example not treating male victims of dv with respect or consideration or even mocking them) I just find that difficult, i think it does more harm than good.

(I do also have personal experience please don't assume i have no idea!)

Do you think DV shelters should be mixed sex? No, I've been referred to a shelter before it is a local women and child shelter and is invaluable in the support it offers. organisations such as women's aid should obviously offer female only shelters.

And do you think female on male violence is taken less seriously because of societal perceptions of masculinity and femininity?
Yes definitely, one recent example i can think of was in the national news, an article about a man who had suffered horrendous burns over his head and face when his partner poured a jug of boiling water over him, had comments on the article mocking him because he was large and muscular, and making jokes. It's an issue when men are victims of violence but are afraid to be take seriously because they're "failing" in the perceptions of masculinity.

Yes. Feminism would like to get rid of all social obligations to 'perform gender'. Men should not be ridiculed for not being macho enough, any more than women should be assaulted for not being the right kind of feminine.

really way too many things to respond to, but no i don't think resources should be taken from women to help with dv, I just think there could be more awareness and recognition of male dv and societal attitudes made it more acceptable for victims of dv to speak out that would be beneficial for all, gender stereotypes work adversely for both genders.

I agree we live in a patriarchal society, but i think capitalism is an issue about more than gender alone i was just pointing that out.

Not sure on the video, even if faked it is a real issue.
I think some feminists discriminate against male victims of dv when they mock them. if the genders were reversed we would be outraged at men speaking of female victims that way.

... but I don't see many men's movements trying to break down rigid gender requirements. Why might that be?

I think some feminists discriminate against male victims of dv when they mock them.

How can you tell the people making comments on the article were feminists?

well, from what I originally thought going back a couple of years, i was under the impression that both men and women were feminists and campaigned for gender equality!

I'm confused, you appear to be mixing up feminists stating that men as a class perpetrate domestic violence in far greater numbers than women with unspecified people mocking male victims of domestic violence online.

i was under the impression that both men and women were feminists and campaigned for gender equality!

Me, too :) So why the big problem with feminism being unfair to men?

How can you tell the people making comments on the article were feminists? actually the comments made on that article were mostly by other men going by there user names.

I've had previous discussions on this subect with feminists and they have made mocking comments about male victims, there are some on this thread as well playing down the seriousness or legitimacy of male victims. or accusing men of being thick or crying or laughing in their facewhen they ask about support for men, i find that a bit distasteful

I have never seen a male victim of female (or male) violence or sexual assault be mocked on Mumsnet. If you have, and it's a live thread, I'd be happy to go and condemn such mockery.

Lego, you've referred to my quote at least twice as evidence of something I did not say. To refresh your memory, here it is:

I'm afraid, these days, I laugh in the face of "what about" men who cry 'Where are our refuges, eh?' I suggest they should be asking other men that question.

This is not laughing in the face of men who've suffered DV. It's laughing in the face of men who think it's women's responsibility to look after suffering men. And who won't adopt any such responsibility themselves.

"I have not once, not ever, had such a man provide any details of a campaign he is actively supporting. Or even one he knows enough about to link to their website or petition or whatever. Not one."

Yup, same here.

I have never seen a male victim of female (or male) violence or sexual assault be mocked on Mumsnet. If you have, and it's a live thread, I'd be happy to go and condemn such mockery.

On the contrary, I have seen women berated for assaulting, one way or another, their male partners. Not excused, even.