When I talk about DV against women to some men.....

[Fireirons]

They immediately turn the conversation around to women being violent towards men. Yep. Women are also violent. I agree.

Yes there is no way violence is acceptable either way

But I cannot even begin to articulate my arguments about how women are often helpless, abused to an extent to being too terrified to leave, have no financial independence, no where to go, threatened, raped etc

I was shaking with anger the other day by a guy who just shouted me down...........that proved my point to a way. He asked for stats and then didn't believe them and tried for 45 minutes to Google stats for male DV.

Are there rescue centres for victims of male domestic violence seeking sanctuary?

I have nc for this.

Yep I have experienced DV.

Ihatelego, apart from feminists, who else do you think should be building DV shelters for men?

I will happily sign any petition etc that you have started or that you know of.

I don't like what other men tell me feminism is about.

This is interesting, Breaking. Can you say (in general terms, heh) what they tell you it's about?

Well if you don't accept that men have privilege and in order to have equality with women they will have to lose some of that privilege then you are never going to get feminism (or any other social injustice movements as they all recognise privilege in its various guises).

lego - both situations in the video you are describing (I assume you mean the #violenceisviolence video created and circulated by mankind) are examples of partiarchal attitudes: i.e. women need protecting and men can only be the perpetrators, never the victims of violence. Neither of them show domestic violence, which is generally private and hidden. And there is reason to believe that the video is a result of careful and selective editing, see wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/05/30/is-the-mankind-initiatives-violenceisviolence-video-a-fraud/

op, i completely agree
some men completely refuse to acknowledge that violence against women is a problem. in their eyes, the bigger problem is that refuges are full of women lying to make their exes look bad. I have read that on another forum from an arsehold of a 'man'.

lego - if the issue here is violence, then what exactly is the point of "equality"? Would you say feminism has done its job if men and women were violent to each other in equal measure? If violence towards men and towards women stem from wildly differing attitudes and root causes, how is equality a solution? The scarcity of resources for victims of DV is an enormous problem, but it's not one that we can solve by forcing women's organizations to share their resources with organizations that support men. That isn't equality, it's just a re-distribution of inequality.

Gralick my comment was slightly tongue in cheek.

Though often you get strawman pre emptive counter-statements about feminism which isn't true or widely held usually followed by an equalitist statement.

female on male violence is generally less common and less fatal I would agree with your comment buffy.

It fits in with the trope of man does/says something silly woman slaps him on arm etc. Remembers those 'just for laughs' sketches where the womans dress falls down on queue, man looks women remonstrates with him - que canned laughter.

equalitist I like that.

This has more relevance to the 'woman hits man, people laugh' trope than might at first be obvious.

lots to respond to - bear with me!

I generally think sweeping generalisations in the context of race/gender/religion should be avoided surely. Could you give me an example of men do x and women do x? as im genuinely curious and can't think of an action that is gender specific and can be generalised except for maybe biological functions such as women give birth? But then that's not the generalisations I see on feminist boards it is usually harmful, hate inciting generalisation such as men are abusers or men seek to take sexual advantage of women.

I see what you mean about the powers, but in society that is a natural culmination of our diversity and societal attitudes, class is very influential (can't remember which is most i have been told at somepoint!) your upbringing, where you are born etc

ihatelego. OK, equality in what sense though? In the basic definition of the word - everyone should be treated equally as people regardless of their gender, race, sexuality, religion etc. We shouldn't discriminate someone for something out of their control i'm not sure how there can be other senses of that

I see a society dominated by a very small number of wealthy, educated, white males and I see how they are able to use their power to increase that power and protect their domination. I'd have thought that was more to do with capitalism and society rather than gender discrimination.

Again what i read sounds like an issue with capitalism, one i have too but i don't think it is progressive to turn that into men vs women.

Ihatelego, apart from feminists, who else do you think should be building DV shelters for men?
There are charities which work with both male and female victims, organisations against violence etc. I've never said feminists should be building shelters, (although again why being a feminist would mean you would oppose that i don't know)

Well if you don't accept that men have privilege and in order to have equality with women they will have to lose some of that privilege then you are never going to get feminism (or any other social injustice movements as they all recognise privilege in its various guises)
I get many social injustice movements, I associate with humanism and will speak out regularly against injustice such as with psc and attending peace rallies, BDS movement etc. I do think there is gender inequality against women, and there is also gender discrimination against men. it is a serious issue that needs adressing i'm just confused by the conflict stances and attitudes within feminism and don't associate with a group that at times is hateful, extreme, and portrays all men in a certain way.

Both women and men don't want to hear about the reality of dv, or any form of domestice abuse. From the abuser to family, people will say it's the woman's fault for winding the man up etc etc. Unless someone has experienced it or is quite emphatic, they will just not want to believe it is true and will think of all sorts of reasons to shut you up because they want to be convinced that men (and some women) can't possibly be that nasty.

I have personally been on the receiving end of this sort of criticism whenever I've voiced my opinion (with personal experience) and either been mocked, had the old eye roll or been told blatantly that it can't be that bad. I was once even called controlling and a bully by a friend when I confided that I was having to pay all the bills and the ex got angry when I asked him to help. So, I think people who haven't directly experienced it just don't get it, unfortunately. I no longer talk about my experiences to anyone who hasn't experienced it themselves. It's just too humiliating and upsetting to listen to their response.

"harmful, hate inciting generalisation such as men are abusers or men seek to take sexual advantage of women."

Ah, you are clearly reading a different feminist board to me .

"I've never said feminists should be building shelters, (although again why being a feminist would mean you would oppose that i don't know"

Ah, you clearly missed the part of my post where I said i would be happy to sign petitions etc.

I don't think I've met a feminist who opposes DV shelters for men, just as I've not meant a cancer care activist who opposes better stroke care. It's just a choice of focus.

How can one fight for equality without using the words and statistics that describe and quantify the inequality?

By that I mean that men do x to women in large numbers and in much larger numbers than women do x to men.

regarding the video i think it highlights that many people don't female against male violence seriously, and the reason why many male victims are worried about speaking up when they experience this. The statistics could be a lot higher if you take this into account. Also yes violence against men has been normalised in the media.

if the issue here is violence, then what exactly is the point of "equality"? Would you say feminism has done its job if men and women were violent to each other in equal measure?

no i think this particular isse of DV highlights some big flaws with modern day, western feminism where you seek equality between men and women but then discriminate against some victims of DV (men) die to their gender, which is hypocritical and isolates many people from the cause. I think the point of equality when it comes to dv is to treat every victim as a person, and individual and give them the same respect, consideration and support regardless of their gender.

Do you think DV shelters should be mixed sex?