When I talk about DV against women to some men.....

[Fireirons]

They immediately turn the conversation around to women being violent towards men. Yep. Women are also violent. I agree.

Yes there is no way violence is acceptable either way

But I cannot even begin to articulate my arguments about how women are often helpless, abused to an extent to being too terrified to leave, have no financial independence, no where to go, threatened, raped etc

I was shaking with anger the other day by a guy who just shouted me down...........that proved my point to a way. He asked for stats and then didn't believe them and tried for 45 minutes to Google stats for male DV.

Are there rescue centres for victims of male domestic violence seeking sanctuary?

I have nc for this.

Yep I have experienced DV.

Cross-posted with a few, sorry

Those 720,000 men abused in 2013 shouldn't feel hard done by then? Perhaps they should just man up?

You won't find any of the regulars on this board coming up with an unkind response like that. However you may find counter-arguments such as: "The thick men who are dying to feel hard done by are not the ones who suffered the abuse, they're the ones who've heard about it, usually in vague statistical terms, but only bother to mention it when the subject of violence against women comes up"; and "How many of the 720,000 were abused by women and how many by other men?"

Violence towards men doesn't even register with me, an ex with mental health issues hit me but that is not the same (she was suffering mania coming off her meds as part of her bi polar) and I wander if this is where the 40% comes from?

I don't know any men who have been assaulted by their partner but I know serveral women who have been hit by male partners and even sadder is after finding the strength to chuck them out/send them to jail they then later take them back.

Feminism is a women's movement. I'm afraid, these days

Really? I was always taught that feminism is about equality for both genders, my male sociology teacher was a proud feminist, surely the more men on board with feminism the better..

comments like this are what pushes me away from "feminism" not equality but the word and association

Annie - your third point is sort of what I was getting at. The implication that violence is commensurable, that DV is a competition between women and men, where the group that scores the most victims loses. The underlying assumption that a serious issue like this can be boiled down to "women are just as bad as men" and left at that. And, more generally, that all feminist issues are just a "women vs men - who's worse?" face-off. DV is not a question of women vs men, it's a question of violence vs solidarity and respect.

Yes, it was, and you did put it well. I knew I should have refreshed the thread before posting mine.

Thing about equality is that it encourages us to assume that the current system is just fine, and all that needs to happen is a bit of tweaking for some people to have the same options as everyone else.

How so? is feminism not a movement for equality between genders? it works both ways obviously otherwise that notion would fall apart. I don't see how equality as a word implies nothing needs to change, there is vast room for improvement on all levels!

Annie - nooo, that wasn't meant to sound like a reproach for not reading my post! I'm just glad someone else had the same reaction to the whole tit-for-tat mentality behind these sorts of exchange!

Feminism is about the liberation of women from male oppression.

When that happens then we can talk about equality.

I'm not going to even comment on the 40% figure. I've done it enough times tbh. However, it doesn't stop me feeling gaslighted every time I hear it.

Ihatelego, that was my quote you pasted. I am an equalist. As part of my desire for level pegging, I acknowledge that women start off with bigger handicaps - fewer 'powers' in game terms - than men. If there were no inequalities, I wouldn't need to be a feminist! It looks pretty damn obvious to me.

I also believe, profoundly, that feminism's aims will improve men's lives as well. To get to it, though, they'll have to give up a few of their 'powers' so there are likely to be a few ructions along the way.

The part you quoted was a direct reference to men complaining about the perceived lack of interest in female-on-male DV and paucity of support services. As I and multiple PPs are pointing out, nobody's stopping them setting up their own. Why look to women to do this for them?

Many, many abusive men when caught out being abusive to theirtheir female partner will lie that their partner was abusive to them in a certain tit for tat, or misrepresent themselves as a victim.

It is so common for an abused woman to have to fight against her partner's lies - that she hit him first, he just retailated, it was only a slap and just the once and really that she is as bad as him; six to one, half a dozen to the other.

I know. I was very down trodden through mental and physical abuse and ovwrwhelming control. I never once retaliated verbally or physically. My husband weighed six stone more than me. I reported my abuse at different times to my gp, health visitor, social services, friends and finally the police. Although my ex admitted it and was cautioned, and went on a dv perpetrators course he continued to be abusive post separation and finally took me to court over contact.

Despite there never being a shred of evidence he later claimed that our relationship was abusive on both sides and portrayed himself as a victim who lived in fear of me and finally once had snapped and hit me in self defense. The court accepted this and in the preamble of the court order states that our relationship was "volatile" and abusive on both sides.

For readers with selective number blindness, the pie chart shows that:

268 men and women were killed by their male partners.

37 men and women were killed by their female partners.

Now please show me how domestic murder isn't gendered.

Thanks for the chart scallops.

itsnotjustaslap . It's a story that's repeated time and time again. There is a woman on the other thread in Relationships who deals with women in prison and she hears the same thing and worse. Women who've killed their partners after years of abuse, in fear of their life.

Men are creating the men vs women dichotomy. I'd like them to stop now please.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the 37 could be broken down further and were due to them being in fear of their life/self defence.

Scallops beat me to it.

i just don't get the feminism movement atm.. like others I just feel it's so conflicted..

1. I don't see why feminists wouldn't seek gender equality, i was obviously misinformed in sociology.

1. with this liberation thing it just makes me uncomfortable as i see so many feminism posts that make sweeping generalisations about men, seek to victimise themselves and make men the enemy. It pushes me, other women and men away from it all which surely isn't a good thing. Again surely a cause which pushes for equality (i thought feminism was one) is meant to unite reasonable, compassionate people to fight against ignorance and discrimination, why make it men vs women

gralick I think there are inequalities for both men and women, and i also want to point out i think the vast majority of men are respectful, caring and considerate people who don't set out to harm or subjugate women.

"To get to it, though, they'll have to give up a few of their 'powers' so there are likely to be a few ructions along the way." totally lost me there.

I complain about the existing lack of interest in female on male violence. DV should be treated with equal consideration and gravity no matter what the gender is, yet the lack of awareness, stigma and the social values of what men should be means that it is often not reported or taken seriously.

I don't like what other men tell me feminism is about.

"i see so many feminism posts that make sweeping generalisations about men, seek to victimise themselves and make men the enemy" - citation needed.

DV is difficult to equalise as surely the reasons behind it are different for each gender?

there was a social experiment video doing the rounds a bit back, 2 actors posing as a couple went to a busy city square, when he started to shout at her, back her against a wall and be aggressive people immediately stepped in and intervened. when it was reversed and she was aggressive to him she went as far as physically assaulting him and people were pointing and laughing.

If you see these sweeping generalisations made in general terms, lego, there's no issue. We can say "men do X and don't do Y" exactly as we can say "roses flower in the summer." Not all men/roses follow this pattern by default, and some people/gardeners have individual skills to alter the default. The statements are still true, in general. That's the purpose of a generalisation!

The 'powers' thing is a well-known computer game analogy. All participants can play the same game by the same rules, but some start off with more lives or powers than others. This gives them an advantage over those with fewer starting privileges.