What do men think feminists should be focusing their energies on?

[PetulaGordino]

It's pretty clear that there are many men with constructive criticism to offer feminists in terms of what feminist issues they should be focusing their energies, activism and outrage on.

This vital advice is at risk of being lost, spread as it is among myriad threads in this section. Perhaps it would be a good idea to collect it together into one thread, for ongoing reference when posters in this section consider their feminist activities and whether they are really focusing on the right issues.

Obviously it should be borne in mind that feminists are only able to focus strictly on one topic at a time in terms of activism and outrage, so don't overload us with too many issues at once!

my tea is wholly made up of Feminist Tears

Aren't we supposed to drink the tea of poor, sad menz AF?

Tears! Not literally stewing the men into tea.

Denying the validity of peoples lived experience then, if the term offends you. I'd imagine you're a TERF?

If someone denies my lived experience of being a woman (that my gender is not innate and the only thing that is fundamentally "womanly" about me is that I have a vagina....does that make them a misogynist?

If gender is what we are and your "girlfriend" enjoys male thing and hanging out with men is she a man? Are you actually gay?

do you understand what you are saying when you use the term TERF?

Meph feminists do believe there is a 'wrong' way for women to behave there are all sorts of behaviours that justify insult and contempt. As Lurcio points out, currying male favour is one strategy for coping with patriarchy. Feminists don't say "women should not play CoD" or "women should not make sandwiches" but playing CoD, making sandwiches or pole dancing are not themselves feminist acts. It's not imposing a gender role on women to examine choices through a feminist lens. That is hugely different from gender roles imposed by women as part of a hierarchy which places women as subordinate to men.

Have you ever met a woman who described herself as a TERF? What is the connection between dismissing genuine suffering and unpersoning?

I think he means the stuff you lay on the ground in a nice even pattern that hopefully goes green in the spring.

I'm parched. I'd love some stewed man tea.

Why would turf go green?

spittin' fevvers, I am

LurcioAgain

Okay, you've said it much better than I was managing. Your first paragraph is exactly how she feels/presents. She sees all gendering labels as artificial and not only ignores them, but simultaneously takes great pleasure in how her natural preferences confront sexist assumptions.

I agree with your analysis of the 'cool girl' arguments, being the idea that some women enact those behaviours for male approval (which is both oppressive for them and undermining of greater equality). However, my original statement regarding the 'unpersoning', the denial of the lived experience, was about precisely this issue - that many feminists deny that such behaviours could simply be a result of innate personal preference and not in any way a strategic choice.

My girlfriend feels judged, by feminists, for who she is and not the choices she makes. While I am certain that many feminists read the articles and blogs about cool girls and immediately separated the two 'types' in their own heads, this was in no way evident in the articles that reached the mainstream or on feminist blogs that expanded the argument. This is what I meant when I referred to making an effort to be less hostile to women who don't conform to feminist gender roles and a policing of the more exclusionary radical elements.

"Alright cunt? Glad you're still here"

Good lord. Do you speak like that around your male partners?

"My dp, being the enlightened feminist that he is, insisted on double barreling our DSes names because he wanted my name and culture reflected equally in their names. He also has no problems with me keeping my name if we ever decide to get married (unlikely)"

No disrespect intended but he sounds like a total doormat... All good fun for you I suppose, but please understand, he is a man without dignity or self worth.

I think there's a lot of delusions of gender going about.

hoppy It was tough and I struggled between sobs but I ate the cake. In fact I baked it too, between preemptive sobs yesterday. Does that make me a good or bad feminist?

And who controls mainstream news content...

Teehee. People being unladylike and swearing around men.

This morning my 6yo DD1 said that she will be keeping her name her whole life and not changing it if she gets married (like her teacher did last summer - changed her name on marriage I mean).

I also automatically put Ms for both DDs when filling in forms. (6 and 4yo)

Please can someone come round this afternoon and stage an intervention?

p.s. I'll be signing them up to scouts not guides, just as soon as there's a minute free in their karate schedule.

I'm going to have to go and bake cake now, which will involve going in to the kitchen (not barefoot as it's fucking cold), so I'm going with bad feminist.

I am off out to buy cake. In my brogues. I might swear a bit at all the men I see, just for the giggles.

However, my original statement regarding the 'unpersoning', the denial of the lived experience, was about precisely this issue - that many feminists deny that such behaviours could simply be a result of innate personal preference and not in any way a strategic choice.

You are conflating two separate issues here. Feminists who think that gender is socially imposed as a hierarchy and is independent of sex do believe that behaviours / personality are not necessarily a strategic choice. Do you agree with this diagram?

She sees all gendering labels as artificial and not only ignores them, but simultaneously takes great pleasure in how her natural preferences confront sexist assumptions.

So she's a TERF then basically.

I tell you what Mestophilies, let your girlfriend come on here and speak for herself, rather than have her thoughts filtered through a man. We promise not to bite.

Magnetic your dignity and self-worth derives from your wife taking your name? What a fragile flower your man-ego is.

I'll bake a cake tomorrow. But it'll be the Millennium Falcon, so sci-fi and unisex by my calculation but I could be wrong and it's masculine. It has Cointreau in the ingredients - what gender if that? Will it make a difference if I use Grand Marnier?

"women who don't conform to feminist gender roles"

i genuinely do not know what you mean by this. feminists do not recognise gender roles. i enjoy dyeing yarn and knitting in a very amateur way - this is not me conforming to my gender or expressing myself as a woman or anything, it is me as a person, doing something i enjoy. likewise i enjoy rock climbing in an equally amateur way. this is not me deliberately flouting gender stereotypes or showing off my feminist credentials - i am just a person who enjoys doing stuff