Men have done such a number on us that even women don't even know what rape is

[cailindana]

Now I know Judy Finnegan is not a paragon of intellectual prowess.

But still, I would never have thought such stupidity could fall from her lips: www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-29598732

She said the rape was "not violent." So what was it then? Friendly? Enjoyable? Just a little game?

How how how how how do we live in a world where a woman can't recognise the extreme violence of having your body used by another person?

Ah that was an interesting exchange.

Where lots of people were patiently trying to explain to you why it was harmful and wrong for men to go on and on and on and cajole and persuade and sulk and all the rest of it to get a woman to agree to sex that she didn't want,

And after a whole stack of posts around that, eventually you said,

"Hi AskBasil- I'm just trying to clarify are you saying if my partner sulks because I don't want sex, if this influences my decision to then consent to sex, you believe I have been raped?"

But ask Basil hadn't said that and she hasn't been on the thread since to answer.

So I'm not sure where you're coming from really.

AskBasil, yesterday, 21:01

"S7S - considering rape is 100% a matter of consent, having that consent is quite important, not a technicality!"

How does this relate to my post?

S7S - that's why I asked about forum opinions, you say 'patiently explain' as if it was possible for one opinion to be correct!

Why "cheap"? What does that mean?

Your posts demonstrate clear lack of understanding of how socialised behaviour and gendered abuse play out in sexual relationships.

Saying my comment is "cheap" doesn't change that

Your post read as if it described consent as a technicality as opposed to mindset :)

Did the lights just dim?

I think this is exactly the attitude that like Buffy says is the one that needs to change.

The current approach is that if you can get someone to say yes, through almost any means, then you can do what you like.

Fortunately as I posted on this very thread earlier, the law does allow room for nuance, for different situations and power dynamics and so on, to a certain extent, which is good.

It makes me sad to think that people didn't read my links that I looked out so carefully for them

Petula - my post just show a difference of opinion to yours, it is what it is! We've are unlikely to agree I guess.

Hi Buffy - if that were an accurate representation of my opinion then you would have a point, but thankfully it isn't.

I find it interesting that often posters who like to join the debate to give a rational perspective from an unemotional standpoint with reference to the law as it stands as a solid benchmark,

Often have little idea of what the law actually says, and write down a lot of "factual commentary" around the legality of x,y or z seemingly oblivious to the fact that they are writing to what they think the law says - or even what they think it should say - rather than what it actually says.

It is a special kind of ego that assumes the body of law in England & Wales will reflect what they personally think the answer is.

The lights definitely dimmed that time

I believe consent, in the context that we are discussing here, where a woman has been emotionally bullied into a 'yes' then it is a technicality.

There was a quite excellent thread about consent here a while ago - "consent" is a rape myth, perhaps the biggest one going. It's a get out of jail free card for rapists. "She said yes, your honour." Ched Evans used it, just about every rapist uses it. "She consented, your honour" - regardless of whether the woman ever wanted sex in the first place.

The only real consent a man should be seeking is a woman genuinely wanting sex with them. Not because he'll sulk if she doesn't, not because he'll be angry if she doesn't, not because she drunkenly went to a hotel room with his friend - but because she genuinely wants to have sex.

MrsBuffy - I have been clear on my opinions, although it is unfortunate you feel the way you do.

Buffy it's your fault for talking to people in good faith in the first place.

You should have known to say no right from the off, before you went and got yourself into this situation.

You only have yourself to blame, I'm afraid.

That is a great post Sabrina

Agree that the whole concept of "consent" when it comes to sexual behaviour is extraordinarily problematical. As things stand and in our society.

I hear what you are saying Sabrina, but I just don't agree with it. I guess that's the end of it!

I don't presume to know the law back to front - happy to be told if I've posted bad 'facts' anywhere.

Buffy I don't think your crucial questions about what the negatives of enthusiastic consent being the legal threshold were ever clearly identified

Hope you all have a nice evening, it has been interesting. Good night