Men have done such a number on us that even women don't even know what rape is

[cailindana]

Now I know Judy Finnegan is not a paragon of intellectual prowess.

But still, I would never have thought such stupidity could fall from her lips: www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-29598732

She said the rape was "not violent." So what was it then? Friendly? Enjoyable? Just a little game?

How how how how how do we live in a world where a woman can't recognise the extreme violence of having your body used by another person?

I think men should only have sex with women that they think want to have sex with them.

Sorry, I know I'd said good night but just though that was an easy one to reply to!

Seven is it because basically the "consent" issue cannot infringe on the entitlement of men to sex. Begrudgingly women have been allowed to claim rape where they have fought or said no. Any more than that and it means too many men having to challenge their own behaviour

"that they think want to have sex with them"

Not that they know want to have sex with them.

And that is the crux of the entire thing, isn't it.

Ok, replace 'think' with 'believe'!

It is precisely what I'm saying, Buffy. It's just too simple isn't it? Men should only have sex with women that want sex, with them, at that time.

Bullying, in any way shape or form, for "consent" is just not genuine consent.

And if she slaps your hand away, turns away, freezes, doesn't reciprocate or react - then she she's not consenting.

And no, the human race will not die out as a result of men taking notice of ^ this.

But if someone believes something then surely, by definition, they don't need to check it. You are already sure and already confident, because you believe it.

There's loads isn't there Petula.

The word in itself is so terribly loaded.

Apart from sex, the things you have to give consent for are things that might harm you. Operations, vaccinations, taking part in dangerous activities. So immediately there is a lot behind that word.

And of course those on the receiving end of penetration, are at risk of harm, and other consequences, especially if they are women. That needs to be recognsied. Yet at the same time, the idea that (in this thread) a woman is giving consent (a word used to allow something that might cause harm) is almost setting up an expectation that this situation might not go her way, that she might be harmed.

I don't know if I'm explaining this very well only just thought of it.

We need to (as so many have said) move away from this culture of "every hole's a goal" and coercion as the norm and females being the gatekeepers of sex and "giving it up" and it's something that they fundamentally don't want really etc etc

And towards sex being a mutually enjoyable and pleasurable experience which is shared between people because they want to with emphasis off PIV being the be all and end all and emphasis on safety first. Or something

Yes, they should, buffy.

What's with the NC btw?? You're not married to a cockhead are you??

I think you should be MrsBuffyReasonable

Buffy - to be fair we are talking about putting people on trial, in court, why would their belief not count in their defence?

Alam Clooney thread Sabrina

"But if someone believes something then surely, by definition, they don't need to check it. You are already sure and already confident, because you believe it."

Erm

Nope you've lost me there

Believing something doesn't make it true

Loads of people believe all sorts of shit that they are wrong about.

Brighton

No that's not actually "fair" at all - as that isn't what we're talking about.

HTH

"This sort of unwanted penetration is illegal, but this sort of unwanted penetration is fine. A lady has to put up with a bit of uncomfortableness for a man's pleasure!"

Brighton:

If a man thinks a woman wants to have sex with him, if he believes she wants to have sex with him, then that's good enough for me

Women:

No no no I want men to only have sex with women that they know want to have sex with them

Brighton:

You want to send innocent men to jail!!!!!

A precis but I think that's how it went.....

You explained that v well seven. It needs a complete overhaul of mindset socially

S7S - When we are discussing putting someone on trial for something, so what they believe is very important!

Just like a policeman who shoots someone he believes has a gun, but then it turns out doesn't I guess.

Lights dimming for you too seven?

Petula - lol I am tired so maybe not making perfect sense

I also like the sort of total bamboozling logic here as well.

If a man believes a woman wants to have sex with him, then in that situation, that is well and good, because if he believes it, it is true

Men must be allowed to use their belief that a woman wanted to have sex as a defence in a court of law

But BUT BUT BUT

Most men in a court of law will use belief that the woman wanted sex as a defence
And clearly some (lots) of them are LYING

So where does that leave us hmm?

Like the exploded computer in star trek after being out-logiced by Kirk is where.