Prostitutes - Are Women in Denial About Who Uses Them?

[CKDexterHaven]

I've seen some threads on Mumsnet where a woman is concerned about her husband or partner going on an all-male trip to Thailand or Las Vegas or Prague or Amsterdam. As soon as someone raises the issue of prostitution they are shouted down and told they are jumping to conclusions. Is the issue of nice, middle-class husbands using prostitutes something to which women are willingly blind?

There are millions of prostituted women and girls in the world, and, of course, men and boys too. The slow advancements in women's lives in the developed world mean that women in their thousands are trafficked from East to Western Europe, from South to North America, from Africa to Southern Europe and from Asia to Australia and the rest of the world just to meet demand. It stands to reason that there must be a lot more clients than prostitutes. The ratio must be akin to hairdressers and their clients. So where are the men? And who are they?

I've read interviews with exited prostitutes who say most of their clients were 'normal', often married, middle-class men. I've heard prostitutes say the best time to work is not a Friday or Saturday night but first thing on a Monday morning when mid-life crisis guys who hate their jobs treat themselves before going back to work. But in my lifetime I've only ever met two men who've admitted to using prostitutes. One was very drunk and bragged to his friends, the other one was an 'edgy' mature student who thought it wasn't exploitative because the prostitute was older than him and, therefore, somehow in control of the situation. That's it, two men.

When I was growing up in the 80s and early 90s porn was sold in dodgy shops, stripping happened in sleazy men's clubs and prostitution was virtually invisible to anyone who didn't live in a red-light area. Even the most handmaideny of handmaidens I knew felt these things were degrading to men and women. Now that porn is a click away and lap-dancing clubs are in every town centre most women seem to have redefined these things as 'empowering' rather than confront the fact that men they know enjoy dehumanising women who need money. Prostitution is also a lot more visible and, although this has been redefined as an empowering career choice for women, women still seem sensitive to the idea of men they know using prostitutes. Why is this? Is it just the question of tangible cheating or are women not as ok with 'sex work' for women as they say they are?

Ime anyone who has openly admitted to paying for sex feels like they have a right to sex, regardless of money changing hands.

And they seem to feel that the person they pay for sex with has no rights if they even feel that person has the right to be a person at all

It is thoroughly depressing to read, or hear, how some people feel about sex, regardless of payment for it.

I think that sex between consensual adults can be wonderful, or functional. Introduce money, or rather power, and it becomes something entirely different.

It is not often acknowledged. Only the most blatant sexists have been open to me about their exploitation.

Through their 'brags' they have outed their colleagues. I have no idea how willing, participative or celebratory those colleagues may be or even if their gross mates were telling the truth, or just bolstering their own disgusting behaviour.

Most of all I hope that the warped thinking that another person's body can be bought for your own use can be, not just challenged, but obliterated.

My body is mine. Wanna fuck with somebody's body? Try your own.

I've overcome my reluctance to google and risk being bombarded with spam, and I found this recent research, which says

"Our findings clearly contradict the 'john next door' notion perpetuated by some media," Dr. Milrod stated. "While it is noteworthy to recognize that the 1% of adult men who paid for sex in 2010 still result in a large number of customers, there is no credible evidence to support the idea that hiring sex workers is a common or conventional aspect of masculine sexual behavior among men in the United States."

It would be interesting to know if the figures are similar in Britain.

Thought it was some kind of peter stringfellow slang there owllady!

Let's get some curvaceous

bleurgh

I read a figure of 10%, BOF. I could believe that. It isn't most by a long way. And I think it is a subclass of men that bears no actual link with "class" as we normally think of it.

I reckon that a lot of men will have done it once or twice on lads type holidays.

The number who do it in the UK / more regularly I have no feel for at all.

I used to have a bit of a thing with a long distance lorry driver as well he said that in the lorry parks (where they sleep in their lorries at night) the prostitutes would go around banging on the cab doors looking for business. I was shocked at the time (young). This was going on just near me - but motorway junction place.

i didn't ask whether he had. Probably. Didn't want to know really, and he'd either lie or be all "what's the problem" neither of which I wanted to know about really. He was just a casual thing.

buy not but

fgs

Maybe it's something even darker. I was reading some of Rachel Moran's work and she was talking about how men would have sex with her in a way they wouldn't with their wives. I'm not talking about acting out kinks or doing specific acts their wives might not do, but men literally venting their hate upon her. Do some women, and I'm not just talking about third-wave feminists here, feel an unspoken relief at the idea of there being an underclass of 'sex-workers' soaking up men's darkness and frustrations so the legitimate, nice women only have to deal with socially acceptable side these men choose to show to the world. They don't really like that someone is doing it but mostly they're glad it's not them.

near not buy or but

no that doesn;t make sense either

just make of that line what you will

"Do some women, and I'm not just talking about third-wave feminists here, feel an unspoken relief at the idea of there being an underclass of 'sex-workers' soaking up men's darkness and frustrations so the legitimate, nice women only have to deal with socially acceptable side these men choose to show to the world. They don't really like that someone is doing it but mostly they're glad it's not them."

Erm, no. Not here.

What an appalling suggestion.

That study says 15% ever, but a much lower number in the last year. Which does tend to support the view that a significant minority might do the whole sleazy stag-do thing at some point, but that it is a smaller 'core' who do so more regularly. I think. I'm not a statistician, but that's what I took it to mean.

I guess it depends on what studies you read, BOF, and their bias (there is always a bias). I don't set much store by actual figures, I prefer to live my own life, and surround myself with people (where I have control) who think along the same lines I do.

Do some women, and I'm not just talking about third-wave feminists here, feel an unspoken relief at the idea of there being an underclass of 'sex-workers' soaking up men's darkness and frustrations so the legitimate, nice women only have to deal with socially acceptable side these men choose to show to the world. They don't really like that someone is doing it but mostly they're glad it's not them

Fuck no!

How the fuck could anyone who cares about women actually think along those lines? That's appalling.

CK, those statements you are making are appallingly victim-blaming. Shame on you.

Do some women, and I'm not just talking about third-wave feminists here, feel an unspoken relief at the idea of there being an underclass of 'sex-workers' soaking up men's darkness and frustrations so the legitimate, nice women only have to deal with socially acceptable side these men choose to show to the world. They don't really like that someone is doing it but mostly they're glad it's not them.

Bloody hell, I hope not.

Blimey Seven, I'm with you on that one- that's a pretty dark view of humanity, and not one I subscribe to.

It's also rather abstract and difficult to back up with facts. So I can't take it very seriously as something to lie awake worrying about.

Just wow at that last post OP.

JusttheRightBullets

I've seen threads on Mumsnet for example where a woman is worried about her partner going on a men-only holiday to Thailand and if someone even mentions prostitution as being a concern there are lots of 'How dare you' comments. If someone mentions the huge disparity between male and female tourists travelling to Thailand then they are told they are reading far too much into things and 'Not all men' blah, blah, blah ... And loads of alternative versions for the male/female disparity are put forward. I guess it's the whole cognitive dissonance thing. And no, that woman's husband might not be going for prostitution but there are so many that do.

"Do some women, and I'm not just talking about third-wave feminists here, feel an unspoken relief at the idea of there being an underclass of 'sex-workers' soaking up men's darkness and frustrations so the legitimate, nice women only have to deal with socially acceptable side these men choose to show to the world. They don't really like that someone is doing it but mostly they're glad it's not them."

Omg no! Definitely not. I think most (all?) women hope and pray and try their best to not end up with a man who has that kind of dark side.

I was listening to a radio exposé on the human trafficking industry recently, specifically a border town in Mexico where traffickers have decided to focus their activities on sex trafficking as it is lucrative. They interviewed one young girl who had been kidnapped at 15, trafficked to the US and forced to work In a brothel in Queens, NY. She said had to see 30 or more men a day and was often 'booked' out for the day on endless 15 minutes quickies so seeing up to 4 men an hour.

My mind boggled listening to this because I wondered 'who the hell are these men who book 15 minute sessions with a trafficked teenager'?? Guys on their lunch breaks?? Who needs sex that badly?

That's potentially 200+ new 'customers' in a week for the brothel. Some will be repeat business of course but I just couldn't fathom the magnitude of it, especially in this day and age when sex is hardly restricted unlike e.g. 100 years ago. Clearly the demand is out there. I can't envisage any normal guy I know doing this but someone must be...

You are reading a different Mn to me, CK

But not all women care about other women. A huge amount of women, and yes I know it's for socialised reasons, choose to side with men at the expense of other women. Male approval is the most important thing and to hell with the underclass of prostitutes, we just won't look.

My ex-husband admitted to using prostitutes. He used the "I can have steak at home but sometimes I fancy a burger" argument. I thought once he met me he'd stop, because I was happy to act like a hooker in the bedroom (no, I don't mean lying there waiting for it to be over). I'm pretty sure he slept with a prostitute a few months before our wedding, and also on his stag night. I still married him. What a fucking mug.

He's an ordinary, wealthy, middle-class, not hideous looking man in a fairly high-profile job. He's just got a vast sense of entitlement and doesn't like women very much. And he's an utterly disgusting, lying, cheating excuse for a human being but I'm not bitter at all.

Gosh, this thread has gone weird.

CK can I ask what's brought this on?

I hope I don't sound patronising here, but, you seem to be being really negative about women tonight. Has something happened? Can we help?