Prostitutes - Are Women in Denial About Who Uses Them?

[CKDexterHaven]

I've seen some threads on Mumsnet where a woman is concerned about her husband or partner going on an all-male trip to Thailand or Las Vegas or Prague or Amsterdam. As soon as someone raises the issue of prostitution they are shouted down and told they are jumping to conclusions. Is the issue of nice, middle-class husbands using prostitutes something to which women are willingly blind?

There are millions of prostituted women and girls in the world, and, of course, men and boys too. The slow advancements in women's lives in the developed world mean that women in their thousands are trafficked from East to Western Europe, from South to North America, from Africa to Southern Europe and from Asia to Australia and the rest of the world just to meet demand. It stands to reason that there must be a lot more clients than prostitutes. The ratio must be akin to hairdressers and their clients. So where are the men? And who are they?

I've read interviews with exited prostitutes who say most of their clients were 'normal', often married, middle-class men. I've heard prostitutes say the best time to work is not a Friday or Saturday night but first thing on a Monday morning when mid-life crisis guys who hate their jobs treat themselves before going back to work. But in my lifetime I've only ever met two men who've admitted to using prostitutes. One was very drunk and bragged to his friends, the other one was an 'edgy' mature student who thought it wasn't exploitative because the prostitute was older than him and, therefore, somehow in control of the situation. That's it, two men.

When I was growing up in the 80s and early 90s porn was sold in dodgy shops, stripping happened in sleazy men's clubs and prostitution was virtually invisible to anyone who didn't live in a red-light area. Even the most handmaideny of handmaidens I knew felt these things were degrading to men and women. Now that porn is a click away and lap-dancing clubs are in every town centre most women seem to have redefined these things as 'empowering' rather than confront the fact that men they know enjoy dehumanising women who need money. Prostitution is also a lot more visible and, although this has been redefined as an empowering career choice for women, women still seem sensitive to the idea of men they know using prostitutes. Why is this? Is it just the question of tangible cheating or are women not as ok with 'sex work' for women as they say they are?

Their husbands are visiting feminists?

Are the pokey sticks out?

Tunip

lol tunip

There is a bit of poking going on, yes indeed

That's a shame. I thought the FWR had moved on from it, tbh.

Wait, is this one of those threads where you judge everyone by your own standards. Like, I use prostitutes behind my wife's back, so every other man does too?

That's really tickled me- I'm imagining a sheepish-looking fella leaving his money on the dresser and lying back to listen to one of Germaine Greer's monologues

I used the word 'touchy' because it seems to be a subject that people get flamed for even mentioning. I said 'we don't see them' because we don't see them. How do these men manage to be so invisible? In no way do I want to imply that women are responsible for men visiting prostitutes or for policing men's behaviour but I wonder if it's something too horrible to confront, that's it's not weirdos in brown macs but men that we know who do this.

The adverts in my local paper do not explicitly state they are brothels and prostitutes but they are in a section marked 'Adult' and you don't have to be a genius to read between the lines to see what they really are.

It's interesting that I've posted a few threads on here, some on controversial issues like transgenderism, but mention middle-class men using prostitutes and suddenly it's goady. Is it that bad to think of?

It's a debate that never seems to move far enough on, IMO.

However far you come - whether that's saying prostitution is absolutely wrong, as most of us do, or whether it's saying it would work if it were better regulated, as I believe SGB does - you never escape the fact that many people want to believe it's ultimately women's fault and women's shame if men exploit prostitutes.

That is what this 'denial' rhetoric is about - it's woman-shaming.

at BOF.

CK - but why wouldn't people be touchy? The majority of feminists think prostitution isn't ok, right?

It's just like with rape. No one actually enjoys thinking about the fact that ordinary men rape.

I'd be really disturbed if we suddenly became blase about it, wouldn't you?

I am afraid it's true. I was in the army and then afterwards worked in other male dominated environments and I am sorry but the unusual ones were the ones who weren't up to anything.

I was on the fringes of a circle of men who on the surface were successful, good looking etc, almost all of them used prostitutes, many of them went away to Thailand on two week holidays where they were with different women every night or had what is known as a "girlfriend experience" where they pay the woman to stay for a number of days or the entire holiday.

I worked for a building company where the men came down from the Midlands and the North to work in the South of the UK, they would get paid on a Friday and pretty much the first thing they did was visit a prostitute. I would hear them discussing where they were going and then plans for the evening afterwards, these were married men with wives and families at home.

I see "touchy" as kinda interchangeable with "hysterical" and "nagging" and other non-useful terms to describe female thought processes. I simply do not expect to see it used on a FWR board with any seriousness.

I said 'we don't see them' because we don't see them. How do these men manage to be so invisible?

What are you talking about, of course they are not invisible. They just don't go round wearing a sandwich board announcing that they paid for sex.

I'm completely against prostitution, porn and any kind of 'sex work'. I was just wondering why we don't want to confront the issue of the men that use them?

I don't know anyone who has admitted, to me, that they've used a prostitute but I would be amazed if literally no-one I know has.

I would imagine that there are 2 broad groups. Someone who might do it as a one off on a stag night, especially abroad where it all seems a bit less real, and men who are going a hell of a lot to local women.

I would be interested to know how many men in relationships regularly use prostitutes given the time and money constraints but on the other hand, if sex with a stranger is your bag, it's a hell of a lot easier than a one night stand from a logistical pov. If I was single and using prostitutes I would likely tell them I was married. It's part of the 'I don't have to pay for it but I need a bit extra on top of what I get at home because I'm such a stud' narrative so I would take a prostitutes 'most clients are married' claims with a pinch of salt.

I like sex with women. I'm cash rich and time poor. I know where some of my local brothels are. I also pass a lot on A roads when I'm out and about (ex little chefs ffs) It would be the easiest thing in the world but I can't imagine anything more grim. I imagine lots of men feel this way too. (And it's not because I'm a woman and need an emotional connection, I've had plenty of one night stands. I just need to know that the person I'm shagging wants to be there as much as I do)
Obviously other men are fine with it. I don't know who these men are but I'm not in denial that I probably do know some of them.

I was just wondering why we don't want to confront the issue of the men that use them?

I don't really understand. What do you think we should be doing?

Ok, I'll reword it - How come these men manage to hide in plain sight? How come we know men use prostitutes but no men we know use prostitutes?

Because they don't tell us. Same as I don't tell people that I write fanfic. It's embarrassing and I don't want people to laugh at me and think I'm a twat.

The problem with threads like these isn't that we can't possibly accept that our naice Nigels could be exploiting prostituted women, but more that they always become about the prostituted women and how feminists are mean to them. They also seem to set a Klaxon off in punterland which means we have some random bloke come along and tell us what utter bastards we are for not letting him pay to wank into women. Even on a thread which was explicitly about what effect the john's choices have, it all boiled down to how mean we are for policing women's 'freedom' and 'agency' and not about the men who drive the industry.

I am fully aware that MC men abuse prostituted women, I lived in a fairly well known 'red light' district and joy of joys was often asked if I was looking for business on my way home from the tube station in the evening. Men of every conceivable class, colour, creed, driving cars that ranged from Porsche's to Skoda's were involved. It's not invisible. It's certainly not invisible on FWR!

Because they don't tell us. Are you saying I should go round my workplace asking all the men or something?

Do you think they would be honest with me anyway. I am pretty sure they would lie to my face.

I guess because they don't broadcast it.
Not really general chat in my world.

I was just wondering why we don't want to confront the issue of the men that use them?

I think this is a really crucial issue. You don't want to confront men (possibly your husband, if I'm understanding this rightly?) because it rocks the boat. You feel you're doing something scary, and that's very hard. It is easier not to do that. But, that's what feminism is!

And I think it is usually conducted in private.

I know it's not a funny topic but I'm afraid that made me smile, gertie.

CK, this is the thing - you have to take the plunge on your own, in a way. People on here will tell you what they've been through, but you're unlikely to find anyone in RL who'll tell you their DH was like this.