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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Prostitutes - Are Women in Denial About Who Uses Them?

318 replies

CKDexterHaven · 25/08/2014 18:54

I've seen some threads on Mumsnet where a woman is concerned about her husband or partner going on an all-male trip to Thailand or Las Vegas or Prague or Amsterdam. As soon as someone raises the issue of prostitution they are shouted down and told they are jumping to conclusions. Is the issue of nice, middle-class husbands using prostitutes something to which women are willingly blind?

There are millions of prostituted women and girls in the world, and, of course, men and boys too. The slow advancements in women's lives in the developed world mean that women in their thousands are trafficked from East to Western Europe, from South to North America, from Africa to Southern Europe and from Asia to Australia and the rest of the world just to meet demand. It stands to reason that there must be a lot more clients than prostitutes. The ratio must be akin to hairdressers and their clients. So where are the men? And who are they?

I've read interviews with exited prostitutes who say most of their clients were 'normal', often married, middle-class men. I've heard prostitutes say the best time to work is not a Friday or Saturday night but first thing on a Monday morning when mid-life crisis guys who hate their jobs treat themselves before going back to work. But in my lifetime I've only ever met two men who've admitted to using prostitutes. One was very drunk and bragged to his friends, the other one was an 'edgy' mature student who thought it wasn't exploitative because the prostitute was older than him and, therefore, somehow in control of the situation. That's it, two men.

When I was growing up in the 80s and early 90s porn was sold in dodgy shops, stripping happened in sleazy men's clubs and prostitution was virtually invisible to anyone who didn't live in a red-light area. Even the most handmaideny of handmaidens I knew felt these things were degrading to men and women. Now that porn is a click away and lap-dancing clubs are in every town centre most women seem to have redefined these things as 'empowering' rather than confront the fact that men they know enjoy dehumanising women who need money. Prostitution is also a lot more visible and, although this has been redefined as an empowering career choice for women, women still seem sensitive to the idea of men they know using prostitutes. Why is this? Is it just the question of tangible cheating or are women not as ok with 'sex work' for women as they say they are?

OP posts:
BOFster · 25/08/2014 21:16

Maybe it's because they only tell NickiFury? Wink

AnyFucker · 25/08/2014 21:17

OP, if you said that Feminism as a movement confronts this issue, but some individual women do not, I would wholeheartedly agree with you

But that doesn't seem to be what you are saying.

OhMyArsingGodInABox · 25/08/2014 21:19

Why is it up to women to police men's use of prostitutes?

CKDexterHaven · 25/08/2014 21:23

I don't really understand. What do you think we should be doing?

It's not the job of women to prevent men using prostitutes but I think in the past 20 years women have increasingly accommodated the idea of porn and lap-dancing in modern life because it's easier to redefine those things as 'empowering' and a 'harmless fun' than it is to confront the idea that men we know (not 'other' bad, nasty men) engage in activities that are degrading and damaging to women. I wonder if we still look away from 'normal' men using prostitutes because it is still an absolute deal-breaker and a lot of women would rather 'not see' than be forced into making a moral judgement about men's behaviour and thereby have to reject those men.

OP posts:
NickiFury · 25/08/2014 21:24

Oh they never really told me. More of a case of them being used to me being around and me overhearing conversations and picking it up plus the ones who weren't at it tended to be quite gossipy about it and liked to try to shock The Girl In The Office.

AnyFucker · 25/08/2014 21:25

Nicki, that sounds horrible

museumum · 25/08/2014 21:26

I don't understand what you want ckdexter? Do you really want us all to believe that our husbands and fathers are probably using prostitutes behind our backs despite giving us no reason to think that? I'm afraid I just cannot live my life in that state of distrust.
I have spent a lot of time in quite make environments through sports I do but never heard any of my male friends suggest or admit to a prostitute visit. If I did hear it I would tell them I was disgusted and thought less of them. That might be why it's invisible - because "nice" men know that the women they know would disapprove and "nice" men care about that disapproval.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 25/08/2014 21:26

CK, lot of women do feel that way, and do make it a deal breaker.

Is it that you feel you can't, personally, or that you want to believe everyone else is the same as you, and ignores it? I get why you'd want to feel it's 'us' not 'you', but I don't really think it is.

StillWishihadabs · 25/08/2014 21:28

I don't know that anyone I knows does. However I would be surprised if no one I know did. I know an awful lot of blokes who travel for work very regularly, I would be very surprised if none of them ever did. In the context of well oiled dinners and class As (which I know they do).

SevenZarkSeven · 25/08/2014 21:30

In real life?

Confront how?

It's not illegal. It is fucking grim.

Am I going to tell these people's wives that they have in the past had sex with a prostitute? Am I fuck. Am I going to tell them it's grim and think less of them if they tell me personally rather than hearing it through someone else? Well yes.

What is it you want us to do?

I don't understand this "how are they hidden" thing either. If I wanted to I could find the time and money to pay for sex and my DH not find out. And vice versa. Esp. if it wasn't too frequent.

I am a bit confused by what you are getting at.

SevenZarkSeven · 25/08/2014 21:32

"I wonder if we still look away from 'normal' men using prostitutes because it is still an absolute deal-breaker and a lot of women would rather 'not see' than be forced into making a moral judgement about men's behaviour and thereby have to reject those men."

Well yes I'm sure that's a big part of it.

SevenZarkSeven · 25/08/2014 21:34

Although I would think that applies more in non partner type scenarios.

If I find out a bloke I work with has paid for sex what actually can I do about that, without making life extraordinarily difficult all round? I mean realistically, it's gonna be a shitstorm isn't it.

CKDexterHaven · 25/08/2014 21:34

No, I don't think everybody's husband and boyfriend is using prostitutes. I just noticed that in life, or on Mumsnet threads, if you even mention the idea that men (who aren't anti-social weirdos) might be using prostitutes you get shot down in flames and women claim it's outrageous and a huge leap of imagination to even think that. If a woman mentions that 'normal' men use prostitutes women would rather turn on her than turn on the men.

OP posts:
StillWishihadabs · 25/08/2014 21:35

And yes most of these men have SAHP ( so they can do the very important traveling) and I feel incensed on behalf of their wives who are looking after small dcs with no time to themselves, while their blokes swan about having a ball on expenses, which may or may not include prostitutes. I wouldn't tolerate any of that from my dp. But then these are not really my friends, so what can I say ?

LRDtheFeministDragon · 25/08/2014 21:37

I think you just have to keep being brave, CK.

StillWishihadabs · 25/08/2014 21:38

But I do know my dh doesn't use prostitutes and I would have no problems discussing it with him if I suspected. But then you see we have a relationship of equals and I am not financially dependant on him.

AnyFucker · 25/08/2014 21:39

Do you think you are being "turned on" CK ?

What you describe in your last post is not my experience of MN. There have been a few threads here where women have come for support when they have discovered their partner's use of prostitutes. The only posters that I have seen not give them whole hearted support are the snipers from other sites that google a few key words and come here expressly to kick a woman when she is down.

we have one on this thread.

SevenZarkSeven · 25/08/2014 21:40

A company a friend worked at held a sales people well done type even where there were prostitutes on tap. She sent me a link. It wasn't in the UK, but was the same company. the prostitutes had arm-bands with classifications and the sales people could only use ones up to a certain arm-band level Confused

So, you know.

Our conversation was
Were there no successful female sales reps, what did they get?
Why did they assume that all their reps would like this "prize" or at least not be horrified by it? A very big assumption there.

CKDexterHaven · 25/08/2014 21:40

LRDtheFeministDragon -

Thank you for illustrating beautifully how women get flamed and personally attacked for saying that 'normal' men use prostitutes.

OP posts:
SevenZarkSeven · 25/08/2014 21:41

event not even!

StillWishihadabs · 25/08/2014 21:45

It's funny that dh is much more shocked at the idea of this than me. When in the past I have said that x might have used a prostitute he said really I don't think so, he's not like that.

Owllady · 25/08/2014 21:45

Well
I don't know that I am middle class but my husband has worked in a certain sector in industry and often worked abroad and curvaceous be sorted out for you if you wanted them. He says he never did. I know of other offered too. I think it's more common than a lot of wives/women know about.
It's not something I give headspace to though
And
I had to post as I have cried laughing at the same husbands who visit feminists

JustTheRightBullets · 25/08/2014 21:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Owllady · 25/08/2014 21:46

Curvaceous
Bloody hell, it said ladies!

Owllady · 25/08/2014 21:47

Oh dear, my husband is called nigel.