The Feminist Pub (continued).

[UptoapointLordCopper]

Been busy. Came back today to have a look but the Pub thread was full! Shall we continue here?

Third episode of Borgen on tonight.

Starting threads on bereavement with made up scenarios?

Yes, I saw those trolls.

I can't see much that could be more important right now, TBH. It is absolutely disgusting. And I do think that the way we're urged to play nice, and accept the troll might be ill, is actually quite dodgy when there are women who have lost children, and when we all know trolls target MN precisely because it is a site predominantly used by women, and they think it's easy to wind people up.

FWIW I don't think the cis/trans thing is purely academic/theoretical but I'm quite happy to sip my beer in peace.

penguin - I didn't see the OP, just the later threads, but by all accounts it was a particularly nasty one that some posters recognized as trolling - and taunting trolling - immediately, whereas others were taken in and shared very personal stories. Horrible.

Was there a whole spate of them then, or were later threads threads about what had happened? God, how awful. I saw one in active yesterday which i thought seemed a bit, well, odd and can't see in there now.

I am sure it's not (purely academic, that is), but that's all I can cope with just now, so I'll be happy to agree to disagree just now.

I do understand how some people use the word 'sick' to describe behaviour they find (rightly) despicable and incomprehensible, whereas people with MH problems will perceive themselves unfairly tarred with the same brush.
It's semantics, but important semantics.
I suppose like cis/trans...

I am currently ignoring a spare bedroom full of presents that need wrapping....

Me too - happy to agree to disagree, that is. I don't even alway agree with myself on anything anyway.

I know what you mean about people using 'sick'. It is momentarily comforting because it suggests this isn't malicious, but I think it can be quite upsetting for people who were hurt by the trolling, who then feel they're being judged for objecting to it.

I do think it is quite different from the cis/trans thing. I don't think it is ever ok to troll, no matter how sick you are - we can stigmatize that behaviour. Whereas I don't think I've ever heard anyone say it is fundamentally wrong to be cis or trans. The issue there is all with the ideology and not much with the practice.

Nonono, it's not remotely the same - just it's about exact definitions of words and not being sloppy with how we use language (which I am being v good at - being sloppy and using shorthand and hyperbole for dramatic effect... ).

The Franlais thread is doing my head in too - I feel an early night coming on

In chemistry, cis isomers have the functional groups "on the same side" of the carbon bond, whereas trans isomers have them "on the opposite side" or "across" the bond.

My understanding is that "trans" is in much wider general use than "cis" (transatlantic, for example) and so transgender evolved as a word "naturally" with cis gender being a derivative because of their Latin meanings.

Just before I am going to bed: I am watching the news, item re Yemeni women is on . Somehow I don't think most of them worry about cix/trans issues... and yes, I can cope with cis/trans in chemistry, but that's it at this point

Night, all x.

I'm hoping this is the right place to let off some steam because I fucking need to right now!

Can someone please articulate to me why it is OK for men to "lie by omission" about porn use because using it is inevitable?

Sorry - this post is about another thread but do people actually justifying lying to their partner in order to preserve their wank material?

The poor OP is doubting her reaction because her husband has lied to her and there are posters clamoring over her to tell her she should sweep it under the rug! FFS!

Sorry, cannot help you with that one - stupid justification.

And NOT all men use porn. Or lie about it - overtly or by omission.

I shall do my best to avoid that thread then, thanks for the warning.

That thread sounds infuriating.

I don't get it, either. The 'all men use porn' thing really pisses me off. I used to be ignorant about porn and thought it was fine, and still at that point plenty of men and women who were also theoretically fine with it said they didn't use it. Why would they lie? It was practically a badge of honour to talk in an oh-so post-feminist way about how porn is great, so I am fairly sure they were telling the truth.

The poor OP, she is basically being told to put up and shut up because she wont be happier without him!

One poster cant even contain himself if he sees an "exciting twitter link"
Jesus - i don't think i released just how bad it was!

God poor OP. I just can't wade in though. That 'husband got in at 6.40' one was bad enough. I don't have enough energy. I find it so sad that people utterly, utterly miss the point. That thread isn't about using porn, or views on porn. It is about someone who, for understandable personal reasons has strong views and red lines and whose partner has given lip service to respecting those and then ignored her

Its the chastising for "breaking up the marriage" over "nothing" that really upsets me, are people really willing to be lied to just to stay married? How can you show your DC how to act with integrity and respect themselves and others when you are willing to stay in a relationship where your opinion doesn't matter? Heartbreakingly sad.

Is this the one where she found out he has still been downloading it and it was quite an emotive title?

I sort of see what people are saying re "it's just porn", however - I am not a porn fan and as far as I know my husband doesn't have it in the house. I obviously can't say for definite if he does or doesn't use it, but it's not something that I want to know, so we just don't mention it (therefore not an issue, iyswim)

It's the lying that stands out to me in that situation, not the porn - he lies to her and she's supposed to accept it - that's wrong and there are no excuses.

Thats the one Monica - she is questioning herself about whether she is overreacting. If it was drugs/gambling or alcohol he was lying about I'm pretty sure the responses would not have been the same

Apparently those are completely different, I just cant see how.

That's the one Monica. The thing is, the OP specifically says she doesn't want it to about using porn. She isn't saying 'was my initial reaction to porn reasonable', she's asking about, as you say, her response to his lying. But so many people insist on asnwering by defending the use of porn as a minor thing.

Amazing how they flounce because they are "talking to a brick wall"

No mate, you want to talk to a brick wall because it wont answer you back.

I only skimmed it, but it did stand out to me that she was seeing the posters saying "you're over-reacting" and listening to them more. Sort of like she wanted to be told she was over-reacting iyswim.

It's not fair, because she's in the position where she wants to minimise it because she's otherwise happy and she's getting that validation; when actually she needs to confront him on the lying and take him to task on that. I have no tolerance for lying at all tbh, it is the thing that riles me above all else.

I haven't looked at it again though, is she dealing with it properly now??

I need to stamp my bingo card because we just had "men are visual"

She wants to bury her head in the sand and be told yabu so she can blame herself and move on.

Well, I expect she did want to be told that, monica, wouldn't you? I think I would.

And I agree that the lying would really bother me.

'Men are visual'

Headdesk.

I would, definitely. It's someone else telling you it's all going to be ok and it's the path of least resistance. It's easy for me to watch from the sidelines and know what should be happening, shit for her being in the middle of it.

Yes.

I think this is why forums like MN are useful, though - because people keep coming back. No one ever posted a thread, got a 'LTB' response and thought right, that's it, divorce tomorrow, but I think you get time to get used to the idea that if you're unhappy, there might be other options than 'oh just ignore it'. And there are some people saying that, too.

All we can hope for even if the OP isn't interested is another lurker reading the responses and seeing something which resonates with them and then having the confidence to say they aren't willing to tolerate it anymore.