The Feminist Pub (continued).

[UptoapointLordCopper]

Been busy. Came back today to have a look but the Pub thread was full! Shall we continue here?

Third episode of Borgen on tonight.

God Mildred. I don't mean to sound rude, but either he has something going on underneath (mental health issue maybe?) or he's an ungrateful misery guts.

I am sorry, but in a normal, healthy person it is simply unacceptable to treat loved ones like that. Either he sorted out the room himself like an adult (if there was a genuine problem) or he shuts the f up and puts a positive spin on it when reporting back. He could even have said "Sod's law, I didn't sleep, but I read a lot and the peace was nice".

Everything you do is not wrong. You shouldn't be made to feel bad about someone not enjoying a party, or a present. My father, for example, is an utter picky whatsit about presents. He fully accepts that though, so he makes a list of books and cd's he wants, and we pick from the list. No big surprises, but he gets something he wants and he's nice about it.

It sounds like there are deeper issues here.

He is being hurtful, but you are worried about raising it because you don't want to be hurtful? You see the contradiction there?

And whose place is it, if not his nearest and dearest?

Hi Mildred, was just browsing all the posts from the last few days and you're one just pulled me up short - you sound thoroughly miserable.

I wouldn't go to the choir thing tonight tbh, just phone and say you're sick - the last thing to do when you feel like that is put your public face on and carry on performing. It's exhausting and draining and serves no purpose.

I agree with Doctrine, do you think you could have some pnd from your youngest? Even just a bit of a slide into common old depression? It happened with me last year, a long, long time coming (over a couple of years) and then one day I just thought - "I can't do this anymore, what am I contributing? I'm so fucking tired and not contributing anything, I'm failing as a mum and just getting by". Thankfully I was still rational enough to get to the docs and got put on pills and saw a cpn & psychiatrist - I had a relapse earlier this year, but only because my husband was away for months and I had to deal with too much again but I am 100% on the right track again. I actually started to feel some joy in life from last month rather than just ok.

With regard to influences on your dd's, they're 4 & 2 - I'm pretty sure you're doing just fine and a brilliant job, you just don't think you are. You're perception of yourself sounds a bit skewed and that's not fair to you.

I hope you take tonight off and have a regroup, then please please go and see a doc or tell someone in rl how you are feeling.

I'm sorry if I've massively overstepped the mark in any way, feel free to tell me to f - off if you want, but your post really resonated with how I've felt myself previously.

Sorry, massive cross posts - re the nail polish, fine in hols but no for school would be my mantra.

Penguins - ""Sod's law, I didn't sleep, but I read a lot and the peace was nice". "
what he actually said was not a million miles off that. he did criticise the room quite a lot but he didn't criticise me.
it just felt a bit not good enough.

"He is being hurtful, but you are worried about raising it because you don't want to be hurtful? You see the contradiction there?

And whose place is it, if not his nearest and dearest?"

I don't know about this. maybe there is a contradiction but I still think it is the right thing to do not to be telling the person you live with what they could be doing differently all the time.

I know everything I do wrong. Or at least, a lot of what I do wrong. I can't be the person I want to be but it is not because I don't get the mistakes I am making. I would not appreciate someone close to me appointing themselves the person who offers feedback on all my cock-ups and character failings. and I don't want to be that person, like a driving instructor with a clipboard, either.

If someone close to me said "What the fuck is going on, why does x keep happening to me?" that would be an invitation to say kindly "well it might have something to do with some of your behaviours". in the right kind of relationship you could consider that an invitation to broach things gently.

but if a person doesn't ask I don't think you can tell.

I have a mind that detects everything that is wrong with everything and everyone. It is fucking exhausting. I certainly shouldn't be sharing all this shit.

thanks everyone.

thanks monica. I sent an email saying the little one was noro-ing and I was staying with her. I feel guilty about pretending to be a loving mother when actually I am just wallowing in self pity. I deserve it if they do come down with noro now! They don't though, poor lambs.

I do think I have some form of depression probably but I don't even have time to go to the dentist. I have a long list of health things that I don't have time to deal with. finally got my asthma prescriptions and a flu jab on friday. now we have: dentist (toothache), weird lump, smear, bad head. have given up on spd.

He does sound ungrateful mildred. Dp and I are both miserable buggers about presents, mostly because there's just nothing we particularly want or need that we haven't bought ourselves already. We are always grateful and gracious about whatever we are given though, and if it's possible to return it without offending the present-giver then we do, if not then we keep it and never say a negative word about it.
You also said that you feel like you're failing as a parent because you don't have a media voice and your dp chooses everything. In that case, surely it's HIM who's failing if your dds are being exposed to terrifying influences. My dp likes to play violent games on his computer but the minute the dds walk into the room he switches them off, without me having to say a word, because he is a parent just as much as I am and knows that some things are not appropriate for small children.
You sound so miserable. Speak to your gp about the possibility you might be depressed, I did a couple of years ago and it made a huge difference just to know that there was help available to help me deal with those feelings, even though there may be a perfectly "normal" explanation for being miserable (like your dh acting like a dick about lovely presents)

Nail varnish, I always went with it's fine for weekends and holidays but not for school. Dd1 now wears some makeup for school but she's a teenager so it's rather different to a 4 year old. Dd2 is 3 and hasn't yet discovered make up or jewellery yet and I refuse to expose her to it any earlier than necessary.

MAKE TIME TO SEE THE GP. You have health problems that need to be dealt with. A wierd lump is something you need to get sorted, depression is something you need to get sorted. What is more important that your health? I know this time of year is absolutely chaotic in terms of how busy we all are, but your health HAS to take priority over everything else.

I went to the doctor in the end with a shopping list.

Bit of background, I'm an RAF so is my husband - I have 2 boys and have spent the last 12 years since I got married juggling life. I am exceptionally good at this and am 100% on fire when I have shit to sort and curveballs to hit - 12 years is a long time juggling though, throw in a bit of pnd and a few postings to opposite ends of the country as well as the usual shit and it all gets a bit much. It got to the point that I was still awesome to the world, but at home I was horrid, useless and horrid. I wasn't, of course, but I really felt I was and I was so. fucking. tired.

2 years ago I had a big life shock, I had to put it in a box because I had shit to juggle, then one day last year I hit a wall and that was that - so I wrote my shopping list and went to the docs with everything that was wrong, and that was when I finally broke down and admitted I needed help.

God love the RAF, their priority is to get a gun back in your hand so you get all the mental help you need to make you better, but unfortunately I relapsed again this year because it was too much too soon again.

Things can be different for you, you just have to ask for help - there's no shame in it, it just is. Once you can get yourself into a level place, you can start working on the other stuff - just concentrate on you in the first instance. Your girls are young, they're not attributing good mum/bad mum to you - there is joy to be had, it's just elusive at the mo.

Thanks for the nail varnish opinions.

The CM's daughter has a million Barbies, and barbie accessories; make up and nail varnish; dd1 desperately wants all of these things.
She loves Disney princesses and twirls about singing Taylor Swift songs in an excruciating American accent.
She is not exposed to anything terrifying. I just think the mix needs a tweak. Merida (BRAVE) is ok; Taylor Swift can play her instruments and a lot of her songs have a nice girl-with-pride-and-high-self-esteem vibe; I am not anti pop culture. I detest Ariel with a mad passion however, and all stuff that is mainly about romance and falling in love with boys, and the whole mix needs a bit of a shake-up towards the more Ghibli end of the spectrum, I think.

I think I am failing because I should be the voice saying things like this. and bringing things in that do that job. I am too passive.

Don't beat yourself up for that though. You have a lot on your plate, I assume, most of us do. Our media mix could do with a bit of a shake up too, dd2 watches quite a bit of tv when she's at home, the cm doesn't put the tv on for them, and very little of it has strong female characters, most of it has girls with huge eyes and eyelashes etc. It's the sort of thing a lot of us want to sort out but it's hard when mainstream media doesn't offer a huge choice of children's films without romance and falling in love as central themes. It sounds as if you are being far too hard on yourself.

Mildred - I'm not suggesting you appoint yourself failings monitor and complain every time he does something wrong. No, you shouldn't criticise someone all the time. But if he genuinely has no idea that he's hurting people with the way he behaves around gifts, then surely he'd rather know that? It doesn't have to be a drip drip. You could have an honest conversation where you don't criticise, but where you say "I am sure that you do not intend it, but when you do X, it makes me feel Y". You can get into the fact that your mum has admitted it makes her feel Y as well, depending on how it goes. Keeping the focus on how it makes you feel can be a good way to keep the conversation on track, and a considerate partner should take that on board, or at least reassure you, even if they see nothing inherently wrong with their behaviour.

I come from a background where my parents row and bicker constantly (though they love each other) and where they often had rows. I had a real learning process in my teens and twenties that I could be far too direct and confrontational. But I had to learn. Others had to teach me or I'd have ended up with no friends and no partner! It is still something I have to work on. It sounds like your partner maybe has a learning process too?

And yes, go to the doctor. Do you have someone who can look after the 2 year old (presumably the 4 year old is either reception or pre-school some of the time)? If not, drag her along. A lump is a serious business, as is mental health. Both could affect the future of you and your daughters if you don't deal with them early. For their sake and yours, please go.

Nail varnish- I treat it not as adult make-up, but the same vein as face painting. DD1 has asked for nail varnish for the first time recently. I have said it isn't allowed for school (which I am sure it would not be) but she can do it in the holidays. I will encourage bright colours, perhaps different colours on different nails, etc. In short, colour and decoration much like an art project or face painting. Must buy some actually as I have one old burgandy bottle (as you can tell, this interest has not come from me!).

Sorry, just realised you mention a CM. So you have some time without them for work? Just tell them you have a medical appointment that couldn't be booked another time and go.

Mildred I'm not going to offer relationship advice, as I don't like to, but I am going to ask; when do you get time to take care of yourself?

You can't take care of anyone if you don't take care of you.

mildred, I'd offer my tuppence worth, but seem to have lost credibility a bit today.
I am sorry you are having a shit time just now.
Taking some time to look after yourself and to actually prioritise yourself is not in the least selfish, it's an absolute requirement for being able to be there for others.
If you find yourself tiptoeing on eggshells around your DH, then that's really tiring and quite damaging longterm.
Wrt role-modelling for your DDs, you can only do what you can do. I don't think that there is only ONE way of being a strong, positive female role-model. Keep talking to them - the older they get, the more interesting the conversations are IMO.

What do you mean Pacific? What thread has been beating you up? Or is it RL?

Nono, not RL, thank goodness.

I don't want to rehash it and MNHQ have now deleted the whole damn thing

It started with RL musings with friends about how anxiety-riddled society as a whole has become: 'Elf and Safety everywhere, children not allowed to climb trees lest the fall down, cycling is dangerous = lets not cycle, stanger danger = lets not let our children step out alone, Pubic Health warnings everywhere could make you believe that certain death is around the next corner. So I started a thread that was meant to be reassured, but ended up being seen as patronising and hurtful . Which was not my intention, but I stand corrected.

Gives PD a hug.

Allows self polite snigger at Pubic Health.

Oh crap

Pubic Health is a huge concern of mine.

Mildred, it might be worth me sharing something my therapist said to me when I had PND, which was that the bad parents are the ones that aren't even thinking about whether they are doing any good - they just don't care.

You do care, you are trying to do your best, you love your DDs - these things all matter and they all make you a good mum.

PD I was on that thread an I do think you had the best intentions.

But it's always good to remember what the road to hell is paved with.

Too right, Tee.
It was ill-advised and I accept it was an error judgement to start that thread.
But in my head I still know what I mean

I should've stayed in S&B or gardening today, in my hungover state...

error of judgement.

And at least you did not call me a 'fucking idiot' - I am grateful for small mercies

I am such a child. I sniggered at pubic health too .

Then karma nearly bit me on the bum as I realised I had typed [bush] and not [ blush ] above.

I didn't see that thread. I've had threads go wrong though. Somehow online it is even harder to stop digging than in real life.

I also thought you accepted your beating with grace.