The Feminist Pub (continued).

[UptoapointLordCopper]

Been busy. Came back today to have a look but the Pub thread was full! Shall we continue here?

Third episode of Borgen on tonight.

I don't know anything about Anglo-Saxon literature. Diana Wynne Jones who was a pupil of Lewis and Tolkien also wrote lots of fantasy-type stories. She has more female characters. But many of her stories still have male main characters and female "sidekicks", however important they are. I suspect that is true in many books...

I address every family as Herfirstname, Hisfirstname. If they have children the children are named first from youngest to oldest.

I have always signed cards Tee and MrTee and now add And Little Tee.

I would never put husband's name first since I'm the one doing all the work!

I don't send very many cards anyway as my family is Jewish and he hasn't got much family. So it's mostly to mutual friends or my own friends and I send one to each of my clients. But that's a business expense.

Thinking about the Christmas Day woman doing all the work thing. DH does half the cooking generally but when his family were here last year I deliberately shut myself in the kitchen on Christmas Day with R4 and a large glass of champers and got on with things. Much more fun having the kitchen to myself (since I like cooking) than trying to be sociable with people I'd never choose to spend time with.

The older generation on both sides always address as as The DH Family, my siblings and cousins are more likely to include my name on cards and parcels.

lego that's totally why I am head chef around here. I am 100% an introvert and sometimes don't want to spend time with people I like, never mind people I don't!

I love closing all my kitchen doors, turning on some music and just ignoring everyone else while I cook. The only reason I don't want a bigger kitchen is because my main excuse for refusing help is 'sorry, the kitchen is too small'.

Sorry for banging on about AS lit. He did edit the version of the Gawain story (all courtly love and magic tricks) which is still the current edition, so I think he is getting a slightly bad rap. But I can almost feel the yawns so I will shut up.

upto, I love Diana Wynne Jones, but I agree. Rosemary Sutcliffe too - I was just chatting to someone about how her female characters tend to be add-ons. It's that old stereotype about how 'girls will read about boys but boys won't read about girls', isn't it? The thing I find annoying is that it must then condition women who go on to write. It's much harder to write something against your own expectations, isn't it?

I do the thing with names on cards. I remember doing it on wedding invitations 'eg Jane and Bill' not 'Bill and Jane', simply because I often knew the woman better, and someone actually commented. I didn't realize til then it's actually considered rude in some circles to not put the man first.

What a load of shite.

I think I might have got DS thinking last night. He asked me about Miss,Mrs and Ms. He said Miss is when you're not married, Mrs is when you are married - and then asked me about Ms.

I asked him what you called men who aren't married - he suggested Master but though that was for children.

So I told him a bit about it - and how some women change their surname when they get married. He thinks that's unfair and there should be a better way. He's 8 The conversation then got sidetracked by Minecraft - but it's made him think.

Mr and Mrs - why not Mrs and Mr?

I put the person who I know first.

DS is doing all his own christmas cards. Having got rid of the wifework of cards, I am not taking it on again

I wonder how many DHs and DPs are card-writing today?

I am making a right hash of this parenting thing. Of life in general, but particularly parenting, or maybe, it just feels like mostly that because it is the most important thing.

I do feel all alone with it all though. Especially from the feminist angle. I have been very relaxed with the dds about that sort of thing (believe or not - I think some people on here probably think I am a right moany Millie Tant) but actually I don't want them to feel alienated, or ideologically harangued. now I suddenly feel like I am making a lot of terrible mistakes, out of lack of energy and also because in our house I do not have a media voice - dp chooses everything. I am used to listening to my own music and reading my own books by myself but I suddenly realise that by myself isn't good enough in terms of looking after my girls. I am going to have to assert myself to have any influence and I am terrible at asserting myself and I truly truly hate it.

I suddenly looked at what influences dd1 is evincing and it is fukcing terrifying. It makes me want to start being one of those people who bans things, which I had thought was unnecessary, but maybe not, and if I do I will be on my own, it will be only me with no back up.

Right now I am in floods of tears in bed even though I should be at a rehearsal for 9 lessons and carols later this afternoon. I don't know what to do about this. I can't stop crying. I was feeling bad about how much I was supposed to be out at church today as I get little enough time with the family as it is. now I am actually failing to honour my commitments and failing to be with them too. failing on all counts. not sure whether I can pull myself together and turn up late or if I will have to send a lame email and stay away.

there is no love in this house. I am failing. I don't look after my children well enough and I don't love dp enough if at all. he doesn't seem to love me. there is no love here and I am failing my children and I am lonely and sad

Mildred - have a hug.

How long have you felt like this?

thanks.
don't know. feel pretty awful off and on usually but only recently have just started to feel so utterly unloving and empty.
frightened by how cold and hollow I feel.
it is dp's birthday, he usually criticises all presents. i bought him a night away in a nice hotel which I thought was inspired as he was exhausted with the kids and eveyrthing. it was rubbish, the room was not good, it was not on his birthday for practical reasons, he didn't sleep, I can't get a refund as he didn't complain at the time so I can't try again another time in another place.
"the girls" bought him the most utilitarian things, clothes from a shop he likes, which I paid for in cash and gave him the receipt and the bag. I have no expectation that I got the right things.
my mum sent some treat food as she never knows what to get either and he phoned me up in a panic about what to do with it because it was delivered to his work and I am sick to death of him treating my family like some vast inconvenience every time they try to do anything nice or communicate with him.
I took him out to lunch but his mother was late so the kitchen was overbooked and the food was so late that by this time I was having to walk dd2 round the garden to try and contain the situation. no one enjoyed it.
he doesn't feel well and doesn't want me to make him something to eat today. we did the cake anyway.
in short everything I do is wrong but the horrible thing is that I am actually starting to hate him for it.

Oh Mildred, you sound like you are in a rough place.

I am sure you are not failing your daughters. It can all feel overwhelming at times.

Have you told your DH how you feel? Do you think he's willing to work on it?

what the hell am I going to tell the choir master. I think he wanted to do a thing where I have a solo. I can't face it. in theory I could still go.

Tell him you are ill and not up to going.

How old are your DDs, approximately?

4 and 2

So sorry to hear you're having such a rotten time, mildred.

If you are not up to going, don't go. It's fine. They'll manage without you.

It sounds as if your DP is putting a lot of stress on you. Do you talk about it? Sorry, obvious question I know.

Btw - people being ungrateful for presents is a pet hate of mine. He is an adult. You had a good go at getting him things and got him things from his baby daughters which at their age he will know come from you.

It sounds odd the hotel was bad enough he'd complain to you, but not so bad he'd complain at the time. IMO the only justification for acting as he did would be if he somehow found it upsetting - eg., if he thought you were packing him off or something?

LRD I can guarantee that 90% of the things my ex gets will be exchanged.

no, it was what he wanted. He is an introvert and, like all introverts who spend a lot of time with small children, he fantasises about lying in and reading in peace.

I think it wasn't as good as he hoped partly because the room wasn't very good and partly because, in my experience of being a burnt out introvert, one night doesn't touch the sides. It's hard to switch off and if you aren't used to relaxing, or having the chance to, you can still be very on edge. you can see why he wouldn't complain to management about that!

People being ungrateful for presents has become a pet hate of mine. In recent years I have had some "the worm turns" moments in seeing how shockingly rude some of the "feedback" from my sister has been for instance, and now I think "fuck 'em". I used to tie myself up in knots over presents and in theory I have stopped. In practice, I can't quite disengage where dp is concerned. I made the theoretical decision that I was going to do my best and not get tied up in knots, but as you can see, I don't quite know how to carry it through

I agree with LRD - if I'd done that forbDH, he'd've said something like, "well, the bed was a bit uncomfy but the dinner was yummy and I got lots of reading done." - or he'd've just not mentioned any downside at all (unless I talked about booking the same place again)

Do you think you might have some PND from the birth of your younger DD?

Sorry, but he is being a bit of a twit, IMO.

If it's something he wanted, whether it was one night or not and whatever the room was like, if it wasn't bad enough to complain to management, he should have been nice to you about it. I think it's really nasty to make someone feel bad about a gift they gave you, unless it is genuinely motivated by unpleasantness.

doctrine is right - if he'd said something more mixed that'd have been fine but he should have been decent about it. That's what normal adults do.

Does he realize he's pissing on your chips with this stuff?

thank you all for engaging with my head fits. I do appreciate the sympathy and the chat.
to steer it all to something vaguely feminist, please can I have some thoughts on 4 year olds and nail varnish?

Just say no?
Say not for school but you can have it in the holidays?
Toes only?

It's not a toy, is what really bugs me.

youretoaat Your DP sounds a bit like my ex. No present is ever good enough or what they wanted. You learn to give them the receipt and wonder why you bothered to go to any effort.

And I understand the "everything I do is wrong" - the hate built up to a very strong reason for separating as you do feel useless.

"Does he realize he's pissing on your chips with this stuff?"

no, he has absolutely no idea. He genuinely doesn't realise how critical he comes across. and how unfriendly his refusal to engage in things that are not his first choice can come across. (he never eats anything or drinks tea just to be polite, for instance - a small example but it is part of a general modus operandi that makes people wary of him.) I have never attempted to explain this, either, because I think it might be hurtful and is not my place.