So many evil men...can't stand it

[SplitHeadGirl]

First of all, I know fully well that men will get upset at what I think and am about to say, so I would like to clarify that I am talking about EVIL men, not the good, wonderful dads and granddads and husbands and nice single blokes out there....the ones who I KNOW (my brain, not my gut, tells me so) are in a majority, but who seem to be few (is it their deafening silence?)

But any fool can see that the sheer amount of men, who are prepared to do unspeakable things to women and girls (and boys as well as other men, not to mention the vulnerable and the elderly...wow, the list goes on) is just overwhelming. I read today about Anene Booysen, and I was absolutely heartbroken, but yet not shocked. For men to be so diabolical to women is not shocking anymore, and that is men's greatest tragedy.

I have two little daughters, and a little son, and I fear for them at the hands of men. Not women...just men.

I feel like I am thinking out loud with this post, so no worries if no one feels they can respond. I just wish I didn't feel so helpless at the tsunami of male violence.

"No Basil is meaning that all men benefit from the violence some men commit."

Lordy. You should win prizes for that quote scallop.

Men benefit when other men rape or beat someone?!

I'm probably done imagining your scenario's tbh Grennie. You've already clearly stated what your thoughts are on rape. Heterosexual intercourse is rape. Got it. Dworkin would be proud.

No I do not think Heterosexual intercourse is rape. Please do not misquote me. I think clearly coerced sex is rape.

I agree that we are born violent. And that we can be tamed.
Dont agree though that most women have probably been raped. Not at all.

Oh fuck it:

1. No

1. Yes

1. No

1. No

Credit women with a little agency.

Trish, no not all women have been raped.

But do you agree clearly coerced sex is rape?

Sigmund - Your DH and DS coerce women into sex?

Only one of the situations you describe is rape Grennie. In the other situations she should LTB. I don't think what Brenslo was describing was any of those though. She was talking about give and take in a loving relationship not feeling unable to say no.

Sex should be mutual pleasure. If your partner puts you in a situation where you can't say no, that is abusive, and it is rape. You are not meaningfully consenting.

So anyway. If we're all born violent, and we are all tamed/not tamed, we have to look to the individuals who are most responsible for our taming, parents. Which inevitably takes us back to my prior comment about this being a class issue.

But you knew that.

When did I call your DH and DS a rapist SF?

Once again, you're making it up aren't you. Pretending an outrageorder to try and pretend that all feminists hate men and think they're all rapists.

You don't seem to have picked up on Breslo's quite controversial comment about all women having been coerced into sex at some point or another.

That isn't rape as you can still say no and they will just sulk etc. When you cant give consent or no is ignored then its rape.

Why are you feeling insulted Pan?

I didn't mean to insult you, I asked you if you are denying that you are part of a group which enjoys a specific male privilege.

How is that an insult?

I wouldn't be insulted if a black person asked me something specific to my white privilege. I wouldn't pretend they'd insulted me. But then, I'm not heavily invested in denying that I have privilege.

I think you would have to define clearly coerced and give some examples. probably yes. And I agree with the mumsnet rape guidelines or whatever they are called.

To be clear, the OP cited the case of Anene Booysen. Her case was not one of 'well, I'll do it just to shut him up'. Her case was of a brutal rape and murder. The two are just not equivalent. To make them equivalent, is to downplay the suffering and death of a beautiful young woman. Please, rope your western sensibilities in just for a nanosecond.

Please stop what SF?

Are you going to answer any of my questions, or are you just going to that under the line, not quite personal attacks as defined by Mumsnet (because see- PA's get to be defined by whoever's got the power to define them as well!) implying that I'm a loon?

Where did I call your DH and DS a rapist? I didn't, did I? You made that up, didn't you? Again.

Enough.

I'm out.

I wouldn't be insulted if a black person asked me something specific to my white privilege. I wouldn't pretend they'd insulted me. But then, I'm not heavily invested in denying that I have privilege.

You can't see that saying to a man who has never committed rape that he is being protective of his privilege to rape is insulting? Hmmmm.

"Lordy. You should win prizes for that quote scallop." Really? That is just the basic dynamics of how oppression occurs. Some oppressors are violent against against a group of people with some common factor e.g. Sex, colour/race, sexuality etc. The victims become the oppressed class. Those not in the oppressed class benefit.

I haven't said to any man that he is protective of his privilege to rape though have I Inde.

I've discussed "privilege" by which I mean male privilege in the case of Pan and white privilege in my own case - the automatic unearned privilege which groups like men and white people enjoy just for being men and/ or white people and which most of us are totally unaware of and sub-consciously invested in protecting, whether we acknowledge it or not.

To pretend that I've specifically accused Pan of wanting to protect specific facets of his privilege (whether that be the ability to rape without accountability, to be paid more for the same job, to enjoy the assumption that domestic labour isn't his problem etc.) is either dishonest or you're reading my posts with an assumption that I'm very unreasonable. Which of course, is your choice.

What you said basil was:

Are you going to tell me that you don't enjoy the privilege of being able to rape a woman and get away with it if you want to?

Let's not get defensive about our privileges now, eh?

I've snipped the middle bit to show the bits that appear to me to be offensive.