So many evil men...can't stand it

[SplitHeadGirl]

First of all, I know fully well that men will get upset at what I think and am about to say, so I would like to clarify that I am talking about EVIL men, not the good, wonderful dads and granddads and husbands and nice single blokes out there....the ones who I KNOW (my brain, not my gut, tells me so) are in a majority, but who seem to be few (is it their deafening silence?)

But any fool can see that the sheer amount of men, who are prepared to do unspeakable things to women and girls (and boys as well as other men, not to mention the vulnerable and the elderly...wow, the list goes on) is just overwhelming. I read today about Anene Booysen, and I was absolutely heartbroken, but yet not shocked. For men to be so diabolical to women is not shocking anymore, and that is men's greatest tragedy.

I have two little daughters, and a little son, and I fear for them at the hands of men. Not women...just men.

I feel like I am thinking out loud with this post, so no worries if no one feels they can respond. I just wish I didn't feel so helpless at the tsunami of male violence.

She didn't say encouraged Inde, she said coerced.

Legally it may well be a sexual assault if the man is unhappy about it and makes a complaint about it. Coercion and encouragement are legally not the same thing at all. But the law doesn't go looking for complaints - officers of the law don't knock on people's bedroom doors to check that they're doing sex legally, safely and correctly. It is only the business of the law, if one of the parties complains about it, just as in every other situation of rape/ coercion/ assault.

D'you think it's nice and balanced now then SF? Was it balanced in the early 90's when marital rape was legal?

Sooo if a woman feels she has been raped that's sufficient for a prosecution BBE?

I'd noticed also how you slipped easily from 'the good thing about being a man', to saying that's how 'we' have fixed it' as a group. Like we all enjoy the privilege of raping women and are in on it. Highly questionable post there.

"Grennie said "Coerced sex may not legally be rape, but it is still rape."

No it isn't, and to suggest it is is disrespectful to women who have been raped."

I'm a woman who's been raped and I don't feel it's disrespectful to me to suggest that coerced sex is rape. AFAIC it is. Just because the (man-made) law says it isn't, just like it said married men couldn't rape their wives, it ain't necessarily so.

The only research I can find seems to be behind paywalls, or requires academic access. I was hoping this stuff might be freely available. Everyone can argue the toss all day and night, but if the cause is identified, surely there are measures to counteract male violence. Rape might be an important part of that violence, but it is still not the whole picture.

Given that you think coercion is rape, and you think that most women have been coerced....and also that you actually clearly stated that most men are, in that case, rapists...

I would call that a rather cut and dried case of man hating, yep.

FFS Greenie you're going back to your Humpty Dumpty approach to language.

I think victims should be listened to when creating the law Sigmund. Certainly more than the perpetrators.

Found this:

"Contrary to popular belief, we are born violent. Until the age of three, our impulses run riot. There is no stopping the urges which come from the emotional centre in our brains.
But as we grow up, we start to develop the part of the brain that allows us to control our aggression - the pre-frontal cortex. Yet crucially, how well this control mechanism works depends on our experiences...

Being taught to share and take turns rather than resolve conflict with violence actually changes the physical structure of the brain and therefore makes us less aggressive."

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8043688.stm

You still haven't explained why you put victims in inverted commas.

Biggedy, Lundy Bancroft has done research with abusive men, some of whom are violent.

I didn't say you were high on it Pan, but if men didn't fix the law, can you tell me who did? Goats perhaps? Women didn't have much input, did they?

Are you going to tell me that you don't enjoy the privilege of being able to rape a woman and get away with it if you want to?

Because actually, men do enjoy that privilege in most circumstances. Most of them (I hope) don't want to enjoy it and I hope would happily give it up. But it's wilful to say it's a privilege you don't enjoy, just as I as a white person enjoy the privilege (which I'd happily give up) of being automatically regarded as more competent to do a job than a similarly qualified black woman.

Let's not get defensive about our privileges now, eh?

Coerced and forced are not the same thing.
To coerce somebody to do something means that you persuade them to do so, but that they agree to do it willingly.
Forced is different and means that the person is engaging in an act without wanting to do so and that they have had their choice taken away.
Forced = rape
Coerced = persuaded to willingly engage.

'D'you think it's nice and balanced now then SF? '

As much as it can be. The definition is too broad IMO. If you add coercion too, well, plenty of men and women may as well hand themselves in right now. Oh no, sorry, only the men, as our legal system doesn't think women are capable of raping.

'Was it balanced in the early 90's when marital rape was legal?'

Was marital rape legal in the early 90's? I hesitate to take any feminists 'facts' at face value tbh. But if true, then no.

Just because the (man-made) law says it isn't, just like it said married men couldn't rape their wives, it ain't necessarily so.

So in the example that Brenslo gave above where she or her husband weren't in the mood but were persuaded by saying something like "Oh go on" would in your opinion be against the law? I'm pretty sure that you are not saying that but I'm just making the point that coercion means different things to different people.

That isn't a feminist fact. It is just a fact. 1991 the law changed.

"Are you going to tell me that you don't enjoy the privilege of being able to rape a woman and get away with it if you want to?"

That is really insulting, BB.

Lundy Bancroft lines his own pockets, that's what he does.

Well this thread has grown quickly. I've read it all but now cant remember what I've read so if I repeat anything that's been said just ignore. I will carry on from last few comments.

I have been coerced into having sex but it was not rape. Its more of a changing my mind after saying no. Out of the men I have slept with only one has raped me.

I agree that victims/survivors of rape shouldn't be in rape cases as it is more likely to go against the accused no matter the evidence as I know if I were in the jury of a rape care I would want the perpetrator locked up just by hearing the word rape as I never got my justice. If that makes sense. That is just my opinion, not the opinion of all victims/survivors.

I really don't like the word victim.

In regards to the law I do think victims should have some say but nothing unreasonable. I wouldn't have wanted to pick a sentence for the rapist personally.

Are you going to tell me that you don't enjoy the privilege of being able to rape a woman and get away with it if you want to?

What the fuck are you on?! It isn't a fucking privilege to rape someone and asking men that is fucking wrong. Do you ask male friend and family this?

I hope your posts are allowed to stand Basil.

No Basil is meaning that all men benefit from the violence some men commit.

And it is a privilege to rape someone and get away with it, which happens about 99% of rapists.

Time to be off. Learned a bit more of how the MN feminist mind operates. Instructive.

The op has a point.
I do think however that we do need to bear in mind that the world population is now 7 billion, not 3 billion like it was in 1960 [something like that, can t be bothered to look up exact figures] So that is by definition going to mean that there is more male violence going on. Also the internet and media bring it to our attention more than again say 1960. Also, and this part I could be wrong, women are more likely to report it and certainly talk about it.

As to whether there is more going on per head of population. Probably? My gut says yes? Difficult to tell for sure. For some reason I think that there is indeed more in Britain, but some countries there is now less? Again, how can we know for sure.

One of the posts on here said that some rapists have a sense of entitlement, and I think I agree with her there.
fwiw, I do think that there are a few men born evil. Only a small number. Are there numbers increasing. Maybe only by population increase iyswim.

Imagine a situation where a woman doesn't want to have sex, but her partner makes a big deal of her refusal. He goes on and on, and eventually she just says yes because he wears her down.

Is that rape?

Or a woman who says no to sex but her male partner does it anyway. She doesn't fight him off though or try to. She is just shocked that he ignored her no.

Is that rape?

A man wants sex with hsi partner. She doesn't want to. But is she doesn't she knows he will throw a massive sulk and not talk to her for days.

Is that rape?

A young woman does not want to have sex with her boyfriend. He says if she doesn't have sex, he will leave her. So she has sex.

Is that rape?