Article about strip clubs in the Guardian

[SaskiaRembrandtVampireHunter]

Never read such a load of twaddle in my life:

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/19/strip-clubs-new-normal

"Is it good or bad that for young men, going to a strip club is the new normal? I'd venture that it's a good thing. It's a place where they can step outside the anxiety-fraught dating scene and talk to a woman who, as long as he keeps tipping, will give him the time of day. It's a world where women parade around nude or nearly so in which doing so doesn't get anybody arrested or elicit gasps. It's a private room wherein a lap dance is on the table and a man expressing his sexuality isn't going to be met with a sexual harassment lawsuit."

Oh yes, because thanks to the feminazis it's now illegal to talk to women

DOS.

Grimble said she'd think a, b and c about her daughter if she worked in an LDC.

I'm just extrapolating that she would also think a,b and c about someone other than her daughter working in an LDC.

Appologies if my logic seems wonky.

Sausage - there will always be the Cynthia Paynes of this world - willing to make a profit out of selling other women's sexual services. But I'd still wager that the majority of club owners are men.

Google is my friend - Spearmint Rhino is owned by John Gray, The Windmill is owned by Oscar Owide and of course there's the inimitable Peter Stringfellow. Whites Gentlemens club - founded by Francis White. Secrets - Stephen Less. Sunset Strip - Tony Currans.

That covers a lot of the 'top ten' London lap dancing clubs. All men so far....

Perhaps sausage's neighbour means that the best clubs for women to work in are owned by women? That wouldn't surprise me.

I think your extrapolation was unwarranted.

You expressly asked her what she would think. She provided a hypothetical judgement on her own parenting. You then paraphrased and generalised her response and told her she was "a smidge" judgemental.

Nice.

DoS yes she is.

DOS

well given she did the same when I told of embarresment if I met my daughter in one, I rather think it is warrented.

Oooh, I've found one owned by a woman - Browns in Shoreditch.

Mind you - it was her father who bought it and ran it before her, so not sure it totally counts.

GetAll - I think you are deliberately misunderstanding Grimble's post - to read it as a personal attack on your parenting is taking things a little bit too much to heart. You asked how she would feel - she answered.

I would love to know the actual figures for male and female owners of lapdancing clubs - I would lay money on most of them being men.

^I bet DadDancer wouldn't want his daughter, or sister, or mother, to be behind a curtain in a club grinding her breasts or vulva on sweaty business men or drunken stag party attendees for £20 a time, for all his talk of the dancers
making intelligent choices and being seen as autonomous human beings.^

Can't help picturing DD in a LDC and finding himself suddenly staring at his daughter wiggling her boobs and vulva in his face.....wonder what he would do. Sit there with a red face, exit quickly or 'enjoy' his daughter's nakedness.

Sorry guys but i didn't notice these two comments until now. Seriously how low are people prepared to go on this forum? I wonder how the two posters above would like it if i were to involve their family members into this discussion?

Insult me by all means, but please show some respect and don't bring my family into this. You may hate my actions but please don't attack my family for it.

Oh that's priceless, Daddancer. Touched a nerve then?

How has your family been 'attacked' Daddancer?

Upset you, did it?

All the women you objectify and dehumanise by visiting strip clubs are someone's daughter.
You could involve my DD and my husband in this discussion with pleasure, my husband likes and respects women, he has never and would never set foot in a place like that, he thinks that the men who do are pathetic individuals and my adult daughter has far too much self respect to ever consider taking money for stripping from a man like you.

no you are priceless Sabrina. Assuming you are a parent, how would you feel about either your son visiting a lap dancing club or your daughter working at one? what would you do if this was to happen? You obviously think it's appropriate to bring family members into this discussion, so come on let's hear it

I'll answer that one completely honestly Daddancer.

I have sons and a daughter. I will bring my sons up to respect women - my husband, like Bela's, has way too much respect for women to ever consider going to a strip club. He and I between us will raise our sons not to feel entitled to get a woman to strip naked for them, for money. If, as adults, they did go to strip clubs I would be sorely disappointed - but somehow, with the parenting they are getting I think it is fairly unlikely. There is a certain mindset men that visit strip clubs have - the mindset that it is ok to exploit and objectify women.

My daughter - well the thought of her being in a seedy environment like a lap dancing bar, taking her clothes off for men like you makes me want to weep. But I'll raise her as my mother raised me - with a healthy disrespect for the sex industry.

DadDancer - surely you can underand the question being asked and the point being made?

If you feel horrified at the thought of your daughter dancing naked in such a place (as most of us honestly would), that tells you everything you really need to know about the places.

^Upset you, did it?

All the women you objectify and dehumanise by visiting strip clubs are someone's daughter.
You could involve my DD and my husband in this discussion with pleasure, my husband likes and respects women, he has never and would never set foot in a place like that, he thinks that the men who do are pathetic individuals and my adult daughter has far too much self respect to ever consider taking money for stripping from a man like you.^

Yeah but when they are over 18, it's their life, it's their choice. You are making personal attacks about my family which you know nothing about and my daughter happens to be a minor.

Finally, may I ask the male supporters of LPDs here what they would do if they were in an LPD, asked for a dance and found that it was their own daughter who turned up in front of them?

Well I don't go to lapdancing clubs but I don't really have anything against them or think they should be banned, so I don't know if I qualify as a "supporter". And my daughters are pre-puberty so I haven't got round to thinking about what it means for them to be sexual beings yet.

But I expect I'd probably be acutely embarrased, and then laugh. I don't honestly have a problem with the idea of one of my children doing that for a living, if it's right for that stage of their life, as long as it's somewhere with clear boundaries and they're not at risk of abuse.

No personal attacks were made against your family Daddancer. This is obviously an angle of the argument that makes you very uncomfortable though - and rightly so. Lap dancers are all someone's daughter - don't forget it.

My daughter is a minor too. I'll happily answer the question with 'what Sabrina said'.

Also how many dads actually like the the thought of their daughter having sex with a bloke? probably not many. Does that mean we should ban them from going out with blokes? no of course not.
My issue was not the fact of implying my daughter will be a dancer but the fact that you feel the need to include her as part of your joke, when she is a minor and has had no involvement in these discussions.

Oh, it's no joke Daddancer.

I'm not laughing anyway. Your over-emotional response speaks volumes.

"... as long as it's somewhere with clear boundaries and they're not at risk of abuse"

Yes, well... Obviously.

That's a pretty big hook to hang your approval on. Pretty much a given that this would be the proviso - but of course the (tiny? medium? huge?) chance that this may not be the case is clearly a big part of why so many of us have a problem with these places.

I feel like we're going round in circles and getting nowhere at this point.

Dad - no-one was implying your daughter would be a dancer. But rather, just trying to humanise the person doing the dancing. You're all gung-ho saying you don't objectify - and yet when someone asks you how you'd feel about your daughter doing this job, it seems to entirely freak you out. As well it should.

All these women are someone's daughter. And if their parents don't care about them - then that's even sadder for them.

^No personal attacks were made against your family Daddancer. This is obviously an angle of the argument that makes you very uncomfortable though - and rightly so. Lap dancers are all someone's daughter - don't forget it.

My daughter is a minor too. I'll happily answer the question with 'what Sabrina said'.^

No the only thing that makes me uncomfortable is involving someone into the discussion that has no way of having an input or defending themselves.

Yes but every girl you meet in life is somebody's daughter. The girl you have sex with, be it in a loving relationship or a one night stand, the girl sunbathing on the beach topless, the girl working in the lap dancing club, the girl doing a sex scene in a bbc period drama. It's always going to be someones daughter. If we took that logic then no one would ever be able to think of anyone in a sexual way -because it's somebodys daughter