Dear rape apologists and whiners: I've done all the Bad Things. Repeatedly. It's never thevictim's fault.

[solidgoldbrass]

I haven't been raped.This is because lots of men are not rapists, and don't immediately rape women who are drunk, wearing short skirts or out after dark without an owner. If you think that any of the above things, or being asleep in a bed near a man, or even having some willing sexual activity with a man and then saying actually no, stop, means it's OK for the man to just go ahead and fuck till he spunks...Would your son do that? Your husband, your best mate, your brother? Do you really think that all the men you know are potential rapists?

So women can't be part of the solution because we are victims?

Gone out in all sorts of revealing clothing, pissed, walked home alone, high heels, whatever.

Never been raped.

Only time I've been sexually assaulted (not counting fucking groping in clubs, which actually is sexual assault) was by a friend of a friend who wouldn't take no for an answer til I actually physically attacked him. I was wearing jeans and a jumper, hadn't been drinking, had certainly made no indication I was interested in him.

Self defence is pretty useless against a man you know because right up until the moment he rapes her, a woman doesn't believe he will. If she did, she would have made sure she wasn't alone with him.

Agree it could be useful in a minority of cases though.

Completely agree with your ideas chibi.

Es if women cd stop rape, we wd have stopped it centuries ago.

I'm not saying we can stop it. I'm saying we can be part of stopping it.

The problem with not being around rapists is that you don't know who is one until hen rapes you.

Are you proposing separatism? that seems a little extreme for the new welcoming feminist section.

we've been part of stopping it for centuries

and er, men are still raping us

popular discourse makes women responsible for stopping rape

feminism make s men responsible for stopping it

Basic feminism again

Fastidia, good points, well expressed.

Offs, one more post, this time for fastidiaBlueberry, there is a difference between

saying that the important factor in any rape is the presence of a rapist (ie it is not the victims fault, not the clothes they were wearing etc etc)

And saying that the only reason a woman hasn't been raped yet is because she hasn't met a rapist

Which it is not rape apology to disagree with!

I don't think anyone on here has at any point suggested it isn't the rapist's entire fault every time. But surely its not helpful to just say if you meet a rapist you're gonna get raped and there's nothing you can do about it, so just accept it, give up.

And just because cars have more accidents doesn't mean catamaran accidents don't matter & should never be mentioned, does it?

I think the difference is a bit angels on pinheads tbh

Sorry, thread moving too fast for me. Obviously I know that the scenario I referred to is rape. However IRL I have been told more than once that it wasn't rape, because it was not 'forced' or 'violent'.

I don't think anyone says give up

Just stop focusing on a tiny minority of cases world ignoring the majority

if we address the majority we will have to address the behaviour of perpetrators instead of that of victims and that makes people uncomfortable unless they are feminists

Also I think the whole 'being a part of stopping it' is VERY difficult to digest for anyone who has actually been raped or assaulted or abused.

Believe me, I would have loved to be a part of stopping it.

Agree with abody and going to leave it there.

Actually, when people are telling women how not to get raped, they always focus on the woman restricting her freedom ie covering herself up, avoiding alcohol, staying indoors. Suggesting that a woman might learn a martial art or carry a gun to forcibly defend herself is often greeted with shrieks of horror or rage and accusations of man-hating.

Ginhag that was rape and if it happened to you, I am very sorry

yes odd that isn't it sgb

Or not, really

Oh no I am posting again. Really must press 'hide'. Again I disagree about the self defence with acquaintance attempted rape. Well, only on a personal level, but I found it no problem at all and (only ime) it was usefulin one particular incident because there was a limit to the level of 'acceptable' violence the dickhead in question was prepared to use. By making it clear this was only going to happen with extreme force and a lot of injuries on both parts, he backed off. Hard to explain away date rape on a family member when you've both got GBH I expect.
I am a bit over-passionate about martial arts I suppose. I think women are brought up to not respond with violence and have little experience of hitting people with all their power. And giving the impression that it is inevitable they will be raped if they meet a rapist is not doing much to alter women's perception of themselves as passive instruments in the hands of the male aggressor.
Anyway, is only a minor point but perhaps there is a better way to phrase the sentiment, which I do understand and agree with, so it doesn't sound quite so fatalistic

But abody that isn't what anyone means, surely? The point is that rape is not the victim's fault

And every time the usual 'short skirts, dark streets' arguments are brought out another woman is implicitly told that rape is avoidable, that she could have avoided it.

Yy SGB.

The onus should not be on women to avoid rapists, rather the onus should be don't rape...and that isn't as simple as it sounds.

There should be better education, less acceptance and tons more punishment combined with REAL societal abhorrence of rape rather than the faux "stranger rape is terrible" "those poor men that are unjustly accused" concern than abounds in the media.