Dear rape apologists and whiners: I've done all the Bad Things. Repeatedly. It's never thevictim's fault.

[solidgoldbrass]

I haven't been raped.This is because lots of men are not rapists, and don't immediately rape women who are drunk, wearing short skirts or out after dark without an owner. If you think that any of the above things, or being asleep in a bed near a man, or even having some willing sexual activity with a man and then saying actually no, stop, means it's OK for the man to just go ahead and fuck till he spunks...Would your son do that? Your husband, your best mate, your brother? Do you really think that all the men you know are potential rapists?

Yep, me too. STaggering home virtually incapable at 2am barefoot, falling asleep on someone else's floor with someone I barely know, etc. etc. etc.

I was just lucky enough not to meet a rapist.

incidentally tehre has been a terrible rape near where I live in East London. Broad daylight, busy park, young woman in working clothes. Dragged into a car and into a flat.

Fuck all to do with her. Everything to do with her rapist.

I have never been raped, despite frequently walking by myself in London late at night and (in my younger days) the odd episode of drunken wandering around in revealing clothing. This is because I am lucky.

I have been mugged once and suffered various minor sexual assaults... all of which have happened when I have been stone cold sober, and most of them when I have been wearing dull work clothes or jeans, in busy places where there were lots of other people around. Only this morning on a crowded tube a gentleman found it necessary to embrace me with both arms from behind while pressing his body against me in order to make his way to the doors.

Not only are the rape myths horrid and victim-blaming, they are TOTAL BOLLOCKS.

There was a police appeal on This morning about a young woman who had the temerity to be out alone after midnight, having had a few drinks - she was violently sexually assaulted and beaten by a man who has not been found - the police woman kept reiterating that women shouldn't be out alone at that time of night .
When young men ( who were alone) are assaulted/beaten up, do the police ever suggest that they shouldn't be out at night alone?

Like hell they do.
I admit I get a bit twitchy when I know DD will be walking back to her car / getting in a taxi alone in a tiny dress and towering heels after a night out but she has the absolute right to do that. Women should not have to modify their behaviour, not that it would stop rape in any case. The onus should be on men to stop raping.

I have worn short skirts or low tops and high heels.

I have been drunk.

I have walked home in the dark alone.

I have had ONS with strangers.

I have never been raped.

I have done a lot of that stuff too, and have never been raped.

I walked home alone through a dodgy area at midnight every night for 6 months when working in a restaurant, I was never raped.

I have been so drunk I couldn't remember where I lived, I wasn't raped.

None of that stuff made any difference. My friend was raped by her boyfriend, my sister was raped by her husband, another friend was raped by a friend who picked her up after a night out so she didn't have to walk home alone. They weren't doing the 'dangerous' things when they were raped, they were doing what is generally considered safe.

Ditto. I still go running after dark. I don't blame women who don't want to do the 'bad things' though.

I've done all the drunk etc. stuff and not been raped when I did it.

The time I did get raped, I followed the rules. Didn't drink too much, wasn't drunk, left the venue with all my friends to get a cab... didn't stop me from being raped, because there was a rapist in the group who manipulated me into separating from the rest of the group and raped me. When I was drunk out of my skull and wandering around alone at 2 o'clock in the morning, no-one raped me because I didn't meet any rapists that night.

The only variable in whether you will get raped or not, is whether or not you meet a rapist.

Yes. I have had disgusting sexual comments shouted at me more than ever when wearing office work clothes and walking home in the rush hour. I have been groped at a work event, on a bus in the daytime when travelling with friends, and when visiting a place of worship. None of them "dangerous" contexts according to the victim-blaming bullshit.

When drunk/wearing revealing clothes/walking home alone barefoot at 3am/getting separated from friends in clubs or at parties/falling asleep in strangers beds and having strange men into mine, I have been lucky enough so far not to be raped or assaulted. Because by pure good fortune, none of the people I walked past or who drove past me or who I trusted have turned out to be rapists, yet. This is not because I am doing something right and the women (and men) who aren't so lucky are doing something wrong. It's because the key factor in rape is the presence of a rapist.

No, I don't think all men are potential rapists, I think some deranged ones are and you have to protect yourself against deranged nutters. So don't meet people over the Internet without letting people know where you going, don't walk home drunk late at night alone etc etc. Not rape apology but common sense, IMO.

Good old common sense. what does common sense have to say about avoiding being raped by

a partner
a friend
a co worker
a taxi driver
a family member

surely there is some good common sense advice about avoiding being raped by these people, given that, as far as i know, most rapes are committed by someone known to the victim

I'm in no way saying common sense prevents all rapes... I'm saying it prevents some. No one is arguing that the victim is at fault, just saying there are ways to be safer in some circumstances.

Does common sense prevent any rape?

Women do have to acknowledge that in some scenarios they can protect themselves. It's never the victims fault but then neither is burglary or someone stealing from you. Saying women can protect themselves sometimes is not saying that the ultimate responsibility doesn't lie with the rapist.

No, common sense doesn't prevent rape. Because rapists plan their rapes and set up the conditions in which they can rape. And if there is a determined rapist present, 'common sense' won't help a woman at all.

Yup. I've been out on the streets on my own, drunk, in short skirts and all the rest of it. Shared beds with men. Been the only woman in large groups of drunken blokes. None of the men I met raped or assaulted me, because none of them were rapists or sexual predators.

OTOH, I've been sexually assaulted several times. On none of those occasions was I provocatively dressed or carrying out any so-called risky behaviour at all. One person who I told did point out that I had been wearing a rather short skirt - but I was 10 years old at the time .

Yes, I'm sure it does. For example, getting unlicensed cabs as they could be anyone. Or getting really drunk and not being able to speak to say no. It's a minority but it needs to be considered. I agree most rapists you know.

So how would you know the 'scenarios' would involve rape?

Or is that my lack of common sense

You don't... But it's always a possibility that you will meet a rapist like its always a possibility you will meet a thief.

everytime someone wants to worry about drunk women walking home in bikinis or something, it presents a skewed view of rape- who does it, to whom, and when

it just seems really misplaced; yes, rape by strangers happens, and yes, a proportion of people raped by strangers may have been drunk or skimpily dressed

but

mostly people known to the victim rape them, in their own homes, while they are wearing officewear or pjs or whatever

to me it would be like a transportation safety campaign that focused on avoiding i don't know catamaran accidents and not car accidents, and whenever anyone tried to shift attention back to the much higher prevalence of car accidents, insisting that it was equally important and necessary to focus on these far rarer occurences

Eclectic, on the occasion of my most recent sexual assault I was in a public place, in broad daylight, behaving confidently, completely sober. I was wearing a heavy coat that was zipped up to the neck, jeans and winter boots. I am an average-looking woman in my forties.

But yes, I "protect" myself now. It scared me out of going for walks on my own any more. Should I have just stayed in the house to start with - or should that particular asshole maybe have kept his dick to himself that day?

What about if you are quite drunk, but you say 'no' but they do it anyway?

Just out of interest.

chibi, that transport safety thing is a great analogy.

I'm sorry that happened to you and as my previous posts have said... Yes he should of and it's his fault and not yours.

Not to go after you, eclectic, but as someone who seems to feel it important to focus on the least likely scenarios in which someone might be raped, could you explain why you think it justified to do so?