Dear rape apologists and whiners: I've done all the Bad Things. Repeatedly. It's never thevictim's fault.

[solidgoldbrass]

I haven't been raped.This is because lots of men are not rapists, and don't immediately rape women who are drunk, wearing short skirts or out after dark without an owner. If you think that any of the above things, or being asleep in a bed near a man, or even having some willing sexual activity with a man and then saying actually no, stop, means it's OK for the man to just go ahead and fuck till he spunks...Would your son do that? Your husband, your best mate, your brother? Do you really think that all the men you know are potential rapists?

No, abody, my point is that until we have signed consent forms and until every human being is absolutely clear and in agreement about how to behave, if you both get pissed and naked and then can't remember the next day, it's probably best not to get pissed and naked.

That does not = asking to be raped.

I see your point Fastidia, what do you suggest then?

Okay, with you there, sorry

Signed contractst again?

So women wd not have the legal right to change their minds?

Outstanding feminist analysis. Not

What do you suggest?

I have been horribly drunk and gone along with things I know I wouldn't have done sober. I tell my dd not to get horribly drunk for that reason.

No one should leave their drink unattended.
Male or female.

I suggest men stop raping women hully

I suggest that the default assumption shd be, that if you want to insert any part of your body into any part of any body els's body, the onus should be on you to be certain that they want you to

This is not difficult. It is the default position of most people

True. I tell my ds the same thing.

True, echo.

Hullygully Thu 12-Jul-12 22:16:16
I have been horribly drunk and gone along with things I know I wouldn't have done sober. I tell my dd not to get horribly drunk for that reason.

Actually, I think this could be said of both genders, boys and girls tbh.

I think both genders need to take responsibility for consent while drinking - I am very wary of this push to put all responsibility on the man. No-one should be raped, too drunk to consent is too drunk to consent, but that is a 2 way street.

Eclectic
I am not saying that rape can never be prevented - but how does that work in the real life.

If I hadn't taken the decision to turn down the high street, the car that crashed into me would have crashed into a different car.

If I had stayed at home, I wouldn't have been run over.

When we start to allow the remote possibility of being raped to dictate our lives, we have lost.

Why should I change my behaviour? Why not the men?

And if society didn't insist on blaming women and misbelieving women who were raped, it would be a lot easier to put the blame where it belongs. On the rapist.

I too have been horribly drunk and gone along with stuff. If I had broken the law, being drunk would not have been an excuse.

Thats reads really badly, I know what I mean in my head, but the words havent come out correctly.

No man should rape anyone, clearly.

Fastidia, do you think you could try to not be so rude an offensive. Everyone is allowed an opinion on this board, if you don't like it, don't read it.

What if there's no "insertion"? Same thing?

No one should have any form of physical act against their will. Obviously.

That still doesn't mean that it isn't sensible not to get paralytic or to leave a drink unattended.

No one should get so pissed that they don't know what's going on.

But some of us do.

That doesn't mean that we are asking for it.

Sexual assaults or any sort of assault.

It's the perpetrator who is to blame.

No it's not a 2 way street. being raped is not something you participate in, it is something that is done to you

What if I WANT to get paralytic?

What if they are both as drunk as each other? And thats a genuine question.

At the bottom line, the final bottom line, it's about how far we are prepared to go as individuals in our belief of our polital practices.

Politically, I am left wing, feminist and libertarian all at the same time.

Am I going to leave my drink in a place where a rapist could drop a rape drug into it without my knowledge? Of course not. That's the personal practice. I'd rather not live in a world where I have to consider that, I would much prefer it if there were a massive deterrent for rape drugs, both for those who sell them (cunts) and those that buy it (cunts)...why isn't the regulation (ick) of this shit more rigorous?

So that's the political part. Arguing that the personal equals the political is a bit stupid really.

This is kind of a straw argument.

Me saying to my dd don't get pissed beyond reason or leave a drink unattended is not absolving rapists of rape.

It's me trying to be as realistic as I can be in the times in which we live.

It might not save her, but hey, it's worth a go, surely? It might save her from some possibilites if not the majority.

yes it is a 2 way street, I know boys who have gone along with stuff pissed, they would never have gone along with sober, so where do they fit into this picture??

If no consent was given, its still rape. If I were to get into my car and drive while pissed, do you think I could be 'let off' with the 'I was drunk and didn't know what I was doing' defence would work?

Well I didn't realise we were purely arguing political... Thats a straightforward easy discussion. Where problems arise is in the personal and real life...