Vile vile Ann Summers product

[Dillytante]

Apologies if there has already been a thread on this.

Bj strap

I actually don't know what to say about this.

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So what gives anybody the right to dismiss the feelings of people justifiably uncomfortable with the idea just because they're alright Jack?

Your link, Charitygirl, to make it easier.

Who says I'm appointing myself spokesperson for the group, Starwisher? I hold an opinion on an issue, I believe that issue has an impact on women as a whole, I get to do that without being appointed as anything by anyone. Holding an opinion is not voided simply because someone disagrees with you.

The thread started by posters calling a product "vile". All that happened nect was someof us explaining why we may want to use it, that is what a discussion is supposed to be, different opinions, no need for arguements, as such.

Perhaps Ann Summers should have marketed this as a product for gay people, but then there would be less publicity, alongside less backlash.

I dont mean you literally have appointed yourself as spokeswoman.

I mean if you want to discuss how this effects women as a group then that group will differ. You think it is demeaning to women as a group, yet some within that group clearly don't. Or perhaps they do, but enjoy being demeaned.

I just dont understand this interference with other womens private sex lives. As long they are consenting and they are safe, why do we need to speak out for them as a group?

Sorry the typo's are because i need to get to bed.

It's a very hard thing to balance. Before sexual 'liberation' women who explored their sexuality were at risk of censure.
Now we have swung to the other extreme, that if your not down with trying anything and everything then your at risk of censure.
Do I think that a high street chain should promote the idea that women are only there for mens sexual pleasure? No, I think that is wrong.
At the same time, do I think that returning to the days where you could not legimatly explore your sexuality is a good thing?
No, I think that is wrong.
The thing we need is a much higher level of education on these issues, so that if a girl/womens partner purchases one of these and she does not want to participate, she knows that it is her choice and her decision not to and that if her partner continues to pressure her, he is not worthy of being her partner.
We need to educate our children on the dangers of marketing, that stores like Anne Summers will stock anything on their shelves that they think might increase revenue, not to empower women or enhance peoples sex lives but to make money.
IMO the problem lies with the advertising industry using bloody sex to sell anything and everything.
Ban marketing and that is half the problem solved.

Nobody is interfering with a woman's private sex life, people are discussing and talking about campaigning against a commercial venture. The two are very different things.

A woman who enjoys being demeaned is within her rights to do so. Another woman who enjoys discussing whether there is a political influence on our personal sexual decisions and tastes is also within her rights to do so. I'm not in your bedroom stopping your sex play.

Good points, fridakahlo.

If your campaigning agaisnt a commercial venture (i.e attempting to stop certain products from being sold) then of course you are interfering as you prohibiting someone else's right to own the product through your own dislike of the product.

You simply have the choice not to buy the product.

As I wont be either.

Well, I'm not campaigning. I don't live in the UK anymore, I expect Anne Summers could not care less what I think about anything.

Those who are talking about complaining are proposing that one high street chain not stock the product. I'm comfortable with that level of interference.

Where in the blurb does it actually say that it's for making the woman choke until she vomits?

If you don't like oral sex, fine. Don't do it. If you don't like bondage don't do it.

But saying Ann Summers shouldn't sell this pretty harmless gadget, lest abusers buy it there and don't have to go to "specialist shops" is a bit like saying that duct tape shouldn't be freely available in DYI stores, cause it could be used to abuse.

Right, I'll bite. Again.

Feminism is a political analysis. It looks at trends and patterns and large scale numbers. It looks at men and women in groups.

Are men offered this? Is it sold to them? As someone else said upthread, Anne Summers sells itself on 'empowering women sexually'. Having your head restricted would not be empowering in any way were it outside the bedroom.

Anyone shouting 'But I WANT to use it' is irrelevant. Yes, the personal is political and all that but do we all know WHY we want to do certain things? Yes, the personal is political but does the fact that you want to do use this strap negate the fact that a product like the one we are discussing here has clear, straightforward connotations of abuse? Look at the picture! Look at the blurb!

Whoever it was that said they liked to 'get fucked'? Have you ever wondered why you say 'get fucked'? Why didn't you say 'I like to fuck'? Or why don't we change the terms completely and say 'I like to envelope' (which I guess would emphasise the role of the vagina), etc etc.

Do whatever the hell you like in your bedrooms - no-one's telling you otherwise. But don't get shirty when your own personal experience is not taken as enough evidence to overturn clear feminist analysis.

Thanks for the link Charitygirl.

That picture made me feel sick. My issue is that it normalises an idea about how these things should be. My first sexual relationship was abusive and I accepted a lot of stuff because I thought it was normal and I thought it was normal because of the ways in which I saw sex represented around me. Images like that one made me believe that what was happening to me was ok and that there was something wrong with me for not enjoying it.

Victor - the poster who said she likes to get fucked said she enjoyed submissive role play, so the choice of words is entirely appropriate.

I found "oh but we're only anakysing" tiresome on the PIV threads, and I find it tiresome here.

I'm all for telling people that they shouldn't engage in any kind of sexual activity they don't find appealing, just because somebody asks them to.

But shouting how horrible a toy is, and tweeting and emailing asking for its abolition is not about that. It's just as coercive as forcing someone to use it. And that clearly isn't just analysis.

Look, you don't have to buy it! You can't be forced to.

Those who want to do it because thats what floats their boat.

Stop digging for something to have a go about, we get it you are feminists but for god sake, give it a rest with this kind of crap.

You're all acting like this is being handed to every one of your DP/DH's with the words "Don't let her leave the bedroom, lads"

I can't be objective about this because of my own experience but I just keep thinking where are the alternatives? If our society and culture were set up in such a way that sex wasn't being pushed in this porny way all the time maybe it wouldn't bother me so much. I remember growing up feeling that this sort of thing was expected of me because everything I read or saw said it was.

I wouldnt like to use this product. But I do like the feeling of being 'forced' when having oral sex with DP i.e holding my head. However I am always in control , can stop when ever i feel like iit.

I agree with Frida - who put it so well.

When I was a teenager the most 'risky' of sex practiced that I heard about was silk scarves or fluffy handcuffs to tie your partner to the bedposts. Oh, and sticking food in your vag - I recall being about the mars bar thing.

The readily available porn has changed that. The 'norm' goalposts have shifted considerably so that young women think that anal is something everyone does and they should just put up with it, that it is a normal part of sex.

The thing that pisses me off is when we are sold items like this as 'empowering' women.

Where is the empowerment in being restrained while a man sticks his dick in your mouth?

Which isn't to say that some women wouldn't enjoy it, but it shouldn't be portrayed at the norm, and sold in high street stores as of it were as harmless as chocolate body paint.

I would actually feel different about this being sold in some specialist bondage site. What I object to is this being sold in a very mainstream sex shop that has traditionally positioned itself at the very soft end of sex shops.

Enjoying being held for a bj like this is I believe a very minority pleasure. Lots of women enjoy soft style domination and submission. But I believe the gag reflux does not make this style of domination - soft style.

To feature in an Ann Summers shop a device that really is for the more specialist end of domination is I think to say this is a normal sexual activity. i also think it si by proxy to encourage woman and especially young woman still exploring their sexuality to accept this kind of activity as normal.

So fine if you want to buy this in a specialist site go ahead. But in Ann Summers no, I do think thats wrong.

Having a product restricted for sale is in no way the same thing as being forced to use it, WidowWadman. Particularly not this product, I should imagine.

I find disingenuousness tiresome, as it goes.

We're not 'only' analysing. Here we have a product whose function changes absolutely depending on the intention of the user. Woman 'wants' to use it = harmless. Woman 'does not want' to use it = rape.

That's a big, big swing. Particularly as human beings' self-knowledge of what makes them 'want' things is notoriously foggy.

Worth a little discussion, no? Worth one or two tweets asking Anne Summers if they wish to profit from this risk-margin, non?

But perhaps not.

Should have made it clear - I don't consider the product harmless. If a woman feels that she has managed to 'reclaim' the product in the comfort of her own bed and relationship, I have no interest in criticising.

But don't pretend that this product isn't rich in harmful symbolism because you've managed to do that.

but none of you are being forced to buy it get a grip!!!!! argh!

Sorry Orange but I don't think thats a meaningful argument. None of us are forced to buy racist books for example...so does that mean those books should exist?

Sorry, Orange, but I just don't buy that as an argument.

I'm not forced to buy Nuts or Zoo either, but I still see tits when I go to the shops. There's still images of women as objects, whether I buy them or not. There are men who view women as objects because of the saturation of images like this. The almighty market is not good for women.

I'm willing to accept that there's probably things I do/buy/whatever in my own life that are harmful to women's liberation. So it's best to pay attention and try and minimise it where I can.

Just showed dh who said "it's just wrong".

It's the message it gives, that it is just about men's pleasure, that women should be on some sort of yoke.

And yes, I would be just as disgusted if this was being marketed to the gay community. No one deserves to be force onto someone's penis. And if they are not being forced then what the hell is this product doing?