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Original poster

Vile vile Ann Summers product

999 replies

Dillytante · 20/03/2012 22:51

Apologies if there has already been a thread on this.

Bj strap

I actually don't know what to say about this.

This thread is years old and inactive. If you've found this page in search of Ann Summers products that have been tried and tested by fellow Mumsnet users, you might find our guide to the best Ann Summers sex toys useful. Hope this helps! MNHQ 💐

OP posts:
PlentyOfPubeGardens · 21/03/2012 08:13

What lesley33 said. It's not so much the product as the context in which it is sold that is, to me, problematic.

I don't see BDSM itself as particularly gendered because I know at least as many male subs as female ones and at least as many female dommes as male doms. Something happens though, when BDSM practices are brought into the 'mainstream' - suddenly it does become gendered. Suddenly, the only ones doing the dominating are men and the ones being dominated are always women.

I think enjoying giving forced oral is probably a very niche thing. I've done it once or twice with DP but it takes a tremendous amount of trust and I have to be in just the right mood to enjoy it. I have however been with more than a couple of men who have been amazed that I have objected to having my hair grabbed and control taken away from me on a first date! Forced oral is becoming normalised and I think that's really damaging for women as a group, no matter what they may enjoy individually.

Chopstheduck · 21/03/2012 08:14

A racist book is a racist book, no matter how you look at it. This isn't, it is what you make of it.

Everyone is holding it up as a symbol of male domination, etc, but that's some people's perception. If I bought it, I'd have fun with it and both dh and I would take turns using it Grin I really don't think it is any different from any other bondage toy, and some people enjoy being dominated!

Chopstheduck · 21/03/2012 08:16

People are ignoring the fact that the sub may be getting just as much pleasure from it as the dom.

lesley33 · 21/03/2012 08:18

i don't think I am ignoring that at all and I had assumed that in the posts you made thsi was implicit. But you are imo ignoring the context in which this is being sold which is not a speciliast bondage site.

VictorGollancz · 21/03/2012 08:18

But outside of BDSM, there is no 'sub' or 'dom'!

Basically, exactly what PlentyofPubeGardens said.

AbigailAdams · 21/03/2012 08:19

As far as I am aware Chops, Ann Summers isn't a bondage shop. And the fact that it is advertised as showing the woman in the submissive position is significant. It is advertised that women "wear" it whilst giving men BJs, not the other way round.

Chopstheduck · 21/03/2012 08:20

sell a carrot in a clothes shop, it's still a carrot.

And AS does sell a fair bit of BDSM stuff anyway.

lisad123 · 21/03/2012 08:22

How that is safe is beyond me!! Surely someone shoving a penis is your mouth and then having the means to force you to take it further in is dangerous! Angry
I think I'm gonna be sick Sad

VictorGollancz · 21/03/2012 08:22

Well, not exactly what PubeGardens said - the last bit!

There are posters on this board who are involved in BDSM and I have no interest in telling them that they are wrong for what they do. But it's interesting that most of the posters are willing to concede that practices in themselves are often harmful and it takes a lot of work to make a context in which it is acceptable to the involved parties.

Under those circs, I don't think it's 'extreme' to adopt a position that says 'actually, I don't think this can ever be empowering to women and any feelings of "empowerment" that women get from this are deliberately constructed'.

lesley33 · 21/03/2012 08:22

Selling a carrot in a greengrocers is very different from selling a carrot in a sex shop. I don't understand why you can't get the point that context matters? You may not agree, but you just don't seem to understand the argument at all?

AS sells stuff at the vanilla end of BDSM. IMO this is not that.

Chopstheduck · 21/03/2012 08:27

But to be a feminist, does one have to be empowered 24/7? Why if they enjoy sometimes being dominated?

If I am subversive to my husband at a time of my own choosing it doesn't make me any less empowered!

I don't think AS is particularly vanilla any more, so no, I don't see a context issue. I don't think this is particularly worse that the hog ties or ball gags that are found on the site.

AbigailAdams · 21/03/2012 08:27

If we were looking at this through a feminist lens (god forbid after all this is only the feminist section) and men and women were seen as equal, sub dom culture wouldn't exist. It would be seen as illogical. The need for dominants and submissives is a patriarchal construct. Some may enjoy that, but it doesn't promote equality.

Chopstheduck · 21/03/2012 08:29

I'd personally find the idea of being hog tied humiliating and a step too far, but it doesn't mean it is a feminist issue and I don't think other women should be able to access it.

MyNameIsntFUCKINGWarren · 21/03/2012 08:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lesley33 · 21/03/2012 08:32

Actually didn't realise AS did sell ball gags, etc. And I think thats wrong too.

Chopstheduck · 21/03/2012 08:33

'Because it gives every abusive rapist fuckwit a greenlight to say to his victims, you must pleasure me, must choke on my cock, because it's mainstream and normal. '

I think that's like saying women shouldn't wear short skirts because it baits rapists. Women should have the right to do what they want, buy what they want.

Birdsgottafly · 21/03/2012 08:34

Frieda- totally agree and was going to make that point last night. The silence needs to end on a lot of relationship matters, including abuse but also how a couple sex life should be mutually agreed upon.

We should be educating and setting up young women with the means to end abusive relationships, not removing products for sale for individuals to enjoy.

If different ways of enjoying sex is disscussed then myths will be broken down and it will help people (not just women) to understand what is or isn't abusive.

I listen to a lot of women,through my work, describe abusive relationships and forced sex/pregnancies, it is very rare that the men are setting one aspect of the relationship, their sex lives to be abusive. Before abuse in the bedroom has taken place there has been numerous abuses taken place, that should have prompted the woman to leave. I don't see why this product is any different from most of the other products on sale. Not when i hear how the use of vibrators etc has caused pain and damage.

lesley33 · 21/03/2012 08:34

Yeah chops because the commercial market is king isn't it.

LaurieFairyCake · 21/03/2012 08:36

I think the problem with it is that it makes something unacceptable (choking porn) acceptable.

It 'softens' extreme pornography to make it mainstream so it gradually erodes away at what is 'normal' and enjoyable sex.

This 'softening' changes the way we look at women - you only have to look at what young men thought attractive breasts were on the Sex Education show to realise that being 'normally' female without enhanced breasts/plucked like a chicken is becoming more difficult.

Every time a mainstream shop brings out stuff that is related to hard core pornography the goal posts shift a little bit more Sad and not in our favour as women.

Like 'Donkey Punch' - 10 years ago the majority of people have never heard of it, now I heard a 14 year old boy discussing it with his friends.

VictorGollancz · 21/03/2012 08:36

Chops - you're still talking at the level of the individual. I'm talking about a practice.

If you and your partner have negotiated a space in which certain practices can take place safely and consensually, then there are schools of thought that will see this as feminist. But that doesn't stop submissive practices being a) gendered and b) dangerous.

I've managed to never stab myself or anyone else with my kitchen knives. You see where I'm going with this?

Personally, I think if you're happy, good for you. I don't criticise other women's negotiations with the patriarchy. But how does your choice to submit mean that other women won't suffer? That every other woman's submission is a safe one?

It won't - so it would be nice if people could acknowledge that.

VictorGollancz · 21/03/2012 08:37

It doesn't, not it won't

AwkwardMary · 21/03/2012 08:40

You can't distinguish between so called "vanilla" restraints like fluffy handcuffs and this product...they are both designed to restrain...if you want to complain about this BJ strap then you must also complain about handcuffs and straps which are also on sale.

victor I said I liked getting fucked because LeBof said that being somebodies "fuck hole" was bad....I countered that I like getting fucked...what's wrong with that. Sex is fucking....fuck is a very old word....you can call it making love if you want....saying "let's fuck" is fine imo...it swings both ways and I can fuck just as a male can fuck.

CrunchyFrog · 21/03/2012 08:46

Playing at abuse then?

Nudge nudge wink wink, made 'er choke on me cock SNARF. Hell yeah, got to hold her head down to get a decent gob job.

I have a problem with most sex toy sites, even the ones purporting to be for women that are just cock-worshipping man pleasing nastiness. The very fact that they are called "toys," it's "play" etc makes me a bit antsy. It's just sex, why the need to dress it up with cutesy names?

VictorGollancz · 21/03/2012 08:47

Again, if you're happy, I don't see the problem. For you.

I have no issue with the word! We're all grown-ups here and I have no issue with whatever anyone chooses to call what they do in bed.

But just because you like it, doesn't mean that 'getting fucked' is a benign practice for everyone no matter what the circumstances.

Birdsgottafly · 21/03/2012 08:53

Lisad- all men have that means anyway, by being stronger than there partners and in a position of dominance, whilst this act takes place, abusers don't need this product. Most women are beaten down before the abuse ever reaches the bedroom, this wouldn't particulary appeal to abusers,who mainly are in denial about what is going on in their relationship.